The challenge to all the believers

[_Mercury]

Heres my challenge to all the believers. First off, don't start with the reverse request because I have done the reverse of what I am challenging.

So, since the study-prayer-belief principal is the "most perfect" way of determining what is accurate I want believers to choose a religion besides ormonism, scientology, raelianism, branch davidianism, evangelical christianity or even my personal favorite Pastafarianism.

Study it out, report on what you have studied and then earnestly pray about it.

Return and report folks. I'm serious. I'd like to know.

What motive do you suppose I would have for doing this?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

To further your knowledge of things outside Mormonism, to prove your faith in MormonCorp, etc.

There are many reasons to do this. If I have to give you a reason then ignore this post and go on making excuses to believe in a farse.

[_Mercury]

I believe in:
Sunshine
Coffee
Alcohol
Cats
Dogs
My loving Spouse
My children
the smell of rain in the air
Free Choice
Good Drugs
Feminism
A good night;s sleep
Hot sex
Good Porn
Freedom
Education
Law
Peace

Like I say, let hedonism ring. Not a whole lot of ethical, moral or religious systems find your views admirable societal objectives. I take it that public service and love of your fellow man is not too high on your list.

And many ethical and religious systems find Mormonism abhorrent. I guess ethicists have the upper hand in this case over Mormonism.

[_Runtu]

Interesting. Mormons who refuse to study and pray about other religions are secure in their faith. Members of other religions who refuse to study and pray about Mormonism are hardhearted.

[_Mercury]

Heres my challenge to all the believers. First off, don't start with the reverse request because I have done the reverse of what I am challenging.

So, since the study-prayer-belief principal is the "most perfect" way of determining what is accurate I want believers to choose a religion besides ormonism, scientology, raelianism, branch davidianism, evangelical christianity or even my personal favorite Pastafarianism.

Study it out, report on what you have studied and then earnestly pray about it.

Return and report folks. I'm serious. I'd like to know.

OK. I've done it. Lord says quit asking after all the miracles I've done for you, your family, your friends, your ward members and your investigators.

What faith were you praying for?

[_moksha]

Vegas, we choose to believe what we want. Even thought it is nice to learn about other Churches and religions so that we may better appreciate them and interact with them, in the end it is our will to believe that drives us. This involves a leap of faith that may sometimes defy conventional logic, but never-the-less, it is an affirmation of what is truly important to us. I do think it is important however that we examine our beliefs to see if they are truly relevant to us. If they are not, then we are free to customize them in order to come up with something totally workable for us.

What you are replying with has no substance and in the end is stating that you can shift belief to whatever will make you feel most comfortable. I think you are saying more than you thought as your statements are very telling of how a cognitive dissonance-controlled mind works.

I was replying with how faith really works. I know exactly what I am saying. We are in the driver's seat with our faith and can choose to believe what we will. God loves us no matter what. Perhaps that is an alternative and potentially unconsidered position for some, but that is what I believe.

I suspect you are working from the position of unresolved issues.

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

I excerise my free choice to not have any faith in anything other than the fact that I will wake up tomorrow and have another day to make free choices.....wow

I will decide what I will have faith in.....very very simple indeed

[_Mercury]

Vegas, we choose to believe what we want. Even thought it is nice to learn about other Churches and religions so that we may better appreciate them and interact with them, in the end it is our will to believe that drives us. This involves a leap of faith that may sometimes defy conventional logic, but never-the-less, it is an affirmation of what is truly important to us. I do think it is important however that we examine our beliefs to see if they are truly relevant to us. If they are not, then we are free to customize them in order to come up with something totally workable for us.

What you are replying with has no substance and in the end is stating that you can shift belief to whatever will make you feel most comfortable. I think you are saying more than you thought as your statements are very telling of how a cognitive dissonance-controlled mind works.

I was replying with how faith really works. I know exactly what I am saying. We are in the driver's seat with our faith and can choose to believe what we will. God loves us no matter what. Perhaps that is an alternative and potentially unconsidered position for some, but that is what I believe.

I suspect you are working from the position of unresolved issues.

A couple of questions relating to who is in the drivers seat:

1. Where does God PHYSICALLY live? Kolob?
2. You give X percent of your money to the LDS church? 10?
3. In order to go to heaven you have to do what? Know secret handshakes?

it goes on and on. The point being that your faith is not in your control. If it was in your control then MormonCorp would have no reason to exist.

If Faith was in your hands there would BE no organized religion.

Faith, at its core is another way to say "believe in this unbelieveable principal because they say so". They being...drumroll please...THE LDS CHURCH.

Saying you have control over your faith as a Mormon (or Raelian/scientologist/j-dub/etc) is like saying you control your dogs thoughts.

[_moksha]

Vegas, we choose to believe what we want. Even thought it is nice to learn about other Churches and religions so that we may better appreciate them and interact with them, in the end it is our will to believe that drives us. This involves a leap of faith that may sometimes defy conventional logic, but never-the-less, it is an affirmation of what is truly important to us. I do think it is important however that we examine our beliefs to see if they are truly relevant to us. If they are not, then we are free to customize them in order to come up with something totally workable for us.

What you are replying with has no substance and in the end is stating that you can shift belief to whatever will make you feel most comfortable. I think you are saying more than you thought as your statements are very telling of how a cognitive dissonance-controlled mind works.

I was replying with how faith really works. I know exactly what I am saying. We are in the driver's seat with our faith and can choose to believe what we will. God loves us no matter what. Perhaps that is an alternative and potentially unconsidered position for some, but that is what I believe.

I suspect you are working from the position of unresolved issues.

A couple of questions relating to who is in the drivers seat:

1. Where does God PHYSICALLY live? Kolob?
2. You give X percent of your money to the LDS church? 10?
3. In order to go to heaven you have to do what? Know secret handshakes?

it goes on and on. The point being that your faith is not in your control. If it was in your control then MormonCorp would have no reason to exist.

If Faith was in your hands there would BE no organized religion.

Faith, at its core is another way to say "believe in this unbelieveable principal because they say so". They being...drumroll please...THE LDS CHURCH.

Saying you have control over your faith as a Mormon (or Raelian/scientologist/j-dub/etc) is like saying you control your dogs thoughts.

I think you are confusing our individual control of an institution with our own individual beliefs. Once again, we choose to believe what we want. Members of organized religion are not forced into believing every single doctrine and dogma of their faith. Some choose to do so and others do not.

[_Mercury]

Vegas, we choose to believe what we want. Even thought it is nice to learn about other Churches and religions so that we may better appreciate them and interact with them, in the end it is our will to believe that drives us. This involves a leap of faith that may sometimes defy conventional logic, but never-the-less, it is an affirmation of what is truly important to us. I do think it is important however that we examine our beliefs to see if they are truly relevant to us. If they are not, then we are free to customize them in order to come up with something totally workable for us.

What you are replying with has no substance and in the end is stating that you can shift belief to whatever will make you feel most comfortable. I think you are saying more than you thought as your statements are very telling of how a cognitive dissonance-controlled mind works.

I was replying with how faith really works. I know exactly what I am saying. We are in the driver's seat with our faith and can choose to believe what we will. God loves us no matter what. Perhaps that is an alternative and potentially unconsidered position for some, but that is what I believe.

I suspect you are working from the position of unresolved issues.

A couple of questions relating to who is in the drivers seat:

1. Where does God PHYSICALLY live? Kolob?
2. You give X percent of your money to the LDS church? 10?
3. In order to go to heaven you have to do what? Know secret handshakes?

it goes on and on. The point being that your faith is not in your control. If it was in your control then MormonCorp would have no reason to exist.

If Faith was in your hands there would BE no organized religion.

Faith, at its core is another way to say "believe in this unbelieveable principal because they say so". They being...drumroll please...THE LDS CHURCH.

Saying you have control over your faith as a Mormon (or Raelian/scientologist/j-dub/etc) is like saying you control your dogs thoughts.

I think you are confusing our individual control of an institution with our own individual beliefs. Once again, we choose to believe what we want. Members of organized religion are not forced into believing every single doctrine and dogma of their faith. Some choose to do so and others do not.

Either your a fringe Mormon or you really don't "GET" the oint of Mormonism. Your telling me that you can play the Ala Carte game in Mormonism? Either your open about dissent against the brethren or your just making up excuses so I don't have a valid point.

How long can I keepup this game of misunderstanding everything Moksha says?

I knew exactly what you were saying and frankly I think you know exactly what I was saying.

You control what you choose to believe in proper Mormonism as much as you can control your taxes. Actually, you control taxes moreso seeing as how you elect those who make tax law.

[_harmony]

Either your a fringe Mormon or you really don't "GET" the [p]oint of Mormonism. Your telling me that you can play the Ala Carte game in Mormonism?

Of course. And what's wrong with being a Fringe Mormon? Or a Cafeteria Mormon? There are lots of us around. We're what holds the church together.

Vegas, no one, absolutely no one from the FP/GA's down, believes all of Mormonism. Why? Heck, even the prophet is clueless about some of this stuff. We are all ala carte Mormons. Heck, most of us don't even know all the doctrine, let alone how to obey all the commandments.

Trying to pin down Mormon doctrine is like nailing Jello to the wall: impossible. It changes all the time.

We all choose what we believe and leave the rest. I'm not bound by your concept of what I'm supposed to believe, or Moksha's, or Pres Hinckley's. I will not be told what to believe by Pres Hinckley, or you, or anyone else. My relationship with God is mine, not yours, not Pres Hinckley's, and no one gets in the middle of that, not even the man designated as prophet.

It might help if you stop thinking like a Mormon. (you know: black/white, all/nothing, against us/for us, etc)