healing/recovery through venting?

[_wenglund]

...and yet, it considerably pales in comparison to your months of venting against the Church (speaking of causes for grief) and thinking you have a right to grieve and the Church and it faithful members doesn't.

In my months of venting on RfM, I never aimed it you or made it personal. You did. I have never denied anyone the right to grieve, but you question that I even have a reason to grieve.

So what if you didn't aim your months of venting personally at me? Does that mean I shouldn't take it personal. Will you deny me that right?

So what if you haven't denied anyone the right to grieve. Does that mean that the validity of your grieving can't be questioned--even in a very reasonable and rational way?

Sorry, I am not buying your childish and way-over-exaggerated "wo is me" excuse. I think you don't want to answer my reasonable questions because you know your game will eventually be up. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Maybe that's the difference between you and me, Wade. You think this is a game.

Perhaps you are right. If a few very reasonable question are viewed by you as "the most cruel thing anyone has said to you", and you are thus rendered incapacitated, then there are some rather serious adaptive and coping red flags going up--which may explain your sense of unquestionable entitlement to venting and grieving.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Runtu]

...and yet, it considerably pales in comparison to your months of venting against the Church (speaking of causes for grief) and thinking you have a right to grieve and the Church and it faithful members doesn't.

In my months of venting on RfM, I never aimed it you or made it personal. You did. I have never denied anyone the right to grieve, but you question that I even have a reason to grieve.

So what if you didn't aim your months of venting personally at me? Does that mean I shouldn't take it personal. Will you deny me that right?

So what if you haven't denied anyone the right to grieve. Does that mean that the validity of your grieving can't be questioned--even in a very reasonable and rational way?

Sorry, I am not buying your childish and way-over-exaggerated "wo is me" excuse. I think you don't want to answer my reasonable questions because you know your game will eventually be up. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Maybe that's the difference between you and me, Wade. You think this is a game.

Perhaps you are right. If a few very reasonable question are viewed by you as "the most cruel thing anyone has said to you", and you are thus rendered incapacitated, then there are some rather serious adaptive and coping red flags going up--which may explain your sense of unquestionable entitlement to venting and grieving.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade,

Your little game is wearing thin. I'm not buying the "I'm only asking reasonable questions that only a nutjob would find offensive" routine. I'm not rendered incapacited. I just find it unproductive to converse with someone who acts as if this were a competition to see how many points you can score at other people's expense.

[_wenglund]

What specifically are you and other RFMers grieving the loss of?

I mean, the Church is still here. It hasn't changed. It still genuinely and sincerely believes it is true.

You, on the other hand, are the one who changed.

In truth, the Church lost you, one of its charished members. So, who really is due grief?

Why sure, any dolt knows that losing one's entire world view, risking familial/business/friendly relationships, and being forced to accept that one has been wrong about one's most strongly held beliefs is about the equivalent of throwing out an old pair of shoes.

Let's address your bushel of sour grapes one at a time.

Did you lose your entire world view, or did it lose you?

I mean, the entire world view is still exactly where it has always been. It hasn't changed in any fundamental way. There are still millions of people who possess it and haven't lost it.

But, you have changed. You abondened your old world view, and adopted a new one. You left the world view, it didn't leave you.

So, who really is due grief (whether on the order of throwing out an old pair of shoes, or months of venting, etc.)?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

When one loses one's entire worldview through no fault of one's own, but instead through the lies of others, indeed, that may require a grieving period. For some, a very long grieving period. That you don't understand that is manifest. That you refuse to try to understand that is almost manifest.

I see you have refuse to take personal responsibility for YOUR CHOICES, and have resorted to blameing the victim (the Church and its members) in a failed attempt at rationalizing your years of unwarranted venting against the gospel of love. No surprise there.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Runtu]

I see you have refuse to take personal responsibility for YOUR CHOICES, and have resorted to blameing the victim (the Church and its members) in a failed attempt at rationalizing your years of unwarranted venting against the gospel of love. No surprise there.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I wonder why I bother, but it's not our fault the church turned out to be fake. We did not "victimize" the church or its members by finding out it was fake.

[_wenglund]

...and yet, it considerably pales in comparison to your months of venting against the Church (speaking of causes for grief) and thinking you have a right to grieve and the Church and it faithful members doesn't.

In my months of venting on RfM, I never aimed it you or made it personal. You did. I have never denied anyone the right to grieve, but you question that I even have a reason to grieve.

So what if you didn't aim your months of venting personally at me? Does that mean I shouldn't take it personal. Will you deny me that right?

So what if you haven't denied anyone the right to grieve. Does that mean that the validity of your grieving can't be questioned--even in a very reasonable and rational way?

Sorry, I am not buying your childish and way-over-exaggerated "wo is me" excuse. I think you don't want to answer my reasonable questions because you know your game will eventually be up. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Maybe that's the difference between you and me, Wade. You think this is a game.

Perhaps you are right. If a few very reasonable question are viewed by you as "the most cruel thing anyone has said to you", and you are thus rendered incapacitated, then there are some rather serious adaptive and coping red flags going up--which may explain your sense of unquestionable entitlement to venting and grieving.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade,

Your little game is wearing thin. I'm not buying the "I'm only asking reasonable questions that only a nutjob would find offensive" routine. I'm not rendered incapacited. I just find it unproductive to converse with someone who acts as if this were a competition to see how many points you can score at other people's expense.

Were that my intent, then you would be justified in your actions. It's not. I suspect you are simply finding excuses, any excuse, to irrationally protect your charished emotions. For my part, I am not questioning the reasonableness of your grieving (that is, given the premises that your grieving is based on), but I am questioning whether your premises are valid and correct, and thus whether your venting was valid or not. If you have any interest in maturing and progressing emotionally, then you wouldn't fear exploring my option.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

I see you have refuse to take personal responsibility for YOUR CHOICES, and have resorted to blameing the victim (the Church and its members) in a failed attempt at rationalizing your years of unwarranted venting against the gospel of love. No surprise there.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I wonder why I bother, but it's not our fault the church turned out to be fake. We did not "victimize" the church or its members by finding out it was fake.

Are you willing to reasonably and rationally test that assertion?

I am.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_truth dancer]

Hi Wade,

If you have any interest in maturing and progressing emotionally, then you wouldn't fear exploring my option.

Do you really believe this? Can you not think of a reason or two why someone who does want to mature and progress emotionally may not want to explore their life/issues/difficulties/journey with you? Do you think fear is the reason why some folks do not want to explore your "option"?

~dancer~

[_Mister Scratch]

...and yet, it considerably pales in comparison to your months of venting against the Church (speaking of causes for grief) and thinking you have a right to grieve and the Church and it faithful members doesn't.

In my months of venting on RfM, I never aimed it you or made it personal. You did. I have never denied anyone the right to grieve, but you question that I even have a reason to grieve.

So what if you didn't aim your months of venting personally at me? Does that mean I shouldn't take it personal. Will you deny me that right?

So what if you haven't denied anyone the right to grieve. Does that mean that the validity of your grieving can't be questioned--even in a very reasonable and rational way?

Sorry, I am not buying your childish and way-over-exaggerated "wo is me" excuse. I think you don't want to answer my reasonable questions because you know your game will eventually be up. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Maybe that's the difference between you and me, Wade. You think this is a game.

Perhaps you are right. If a few very reasonable question are viewed by you as "the most cruel thing anyone has said to you", and you are thus rendered incapacitated, then there are some rather serious adaptive and coping red flags going up--which may explain your sense of unquestionable entitlement to venting and grieving.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade,

Your little game is wearing thin. I'm not buying the "I'm only asking reasonable questions that only a nutjob would find offensive" routine. I'm not rendered incapacited. I just find it unproductive to converse with someone who acts as if this were a competition to see how many points you can score at other people's expense.

Were that my intent, then you would be justified in your actions. It's not. I suspect you are simply finding excuses, any excuse, to irrationally protect your charished emotions.

But you yourself have said that the Church is the "most precious and dear thing" in your life. Are you "simply finding excuses, any excuse, to irrationally protect your charished emotions"? I think that Runtu and those like him would be willing to criticize themselves. But I know for a fact that you will not criticize the Church. This discussion cannot go both ways. Reciprocity is impossible here.

For my part, I am not questioning the reasonableness of your grieving (that is, given the premises that your grieving is based on), but I am questioning whether your premises are valid and correct, and thus whether your venting was valid or not.

So are you saying that you're interested in discussing whether or not the Church has fully lived up to its claims, or its self-applied label as "The Only True Church on the Earth"?

If you have any interest in maturing and progressing emotionally, then you wouldn't fear exploring my option.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Likewise, you shouldn't have any problem exploring whether or not the Church and its leadership has screwed up, or behaved dishonestly. Even President J. Reuben Clark admitted that the Church sometimes lacked integrity. Can you admit that too?

[_Runtu]

I see you have refuse to take personal responsibility for YOUR CHOICES, and have resorted to blameing the victim (the Church and its members) in a failed attempt at rationalizing your years of unwarranted venting against the gospel of love. No surprise there.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I wonder why I bother, but it's not our fault the church turned out to be fake. We did not "victimize" the church or its members by finding out it was fake.

Are you willing to reasonably and rationally test that assertion?

I am.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Which assertion? That the church is fake? or that finding out the church is fake does not make the church a victim? Or did you have something else in mind?

[_beastie]

Wade,

Please answer this straight-forward question.

Is it possible for a sincere, well-informed, psychologically stable person to, after a period of study and prayer, lose faith in the LDS church's truth claims due to problems within church history or teachings?