Who is GAZ

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_Mercury
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Re: Harmony

Post by _Mercury »

Gazelam wrote:Which of the Prophets do you reject who have personally seen God?

Was Adam lieing in his book of remembrance? (Moses 6:4-6.)

Was Enoch? (Jude 1:14.)

Noah and Abraham? (Abraham 1:25-31.)

The Brother of Jared? (Ether chp.2- chp.3)

How many more prophets should I list that have seen and spoken with God himself?

Lorenzo Snow? THE SAVIOR APPEARED TO HIM IN THE SALT LAKE TEMPLE

“For some time President Woodruff ’s health had been failing. Nearly every evening President Lorenzo Snow visited him at his home. This particular evening the doctors said that President Woodruff could not live much longer, that he was becoming weaker every day.
President Snow was greatly worried. We cannot realize today what a terrible financial condition the Church was in at that time—owing millions of dollars and not being able to pay even the interest on its indebtedness.
“My father went to his room in the Salt LakeTemple, dressed in his robes of the Priesthood,knelt at the sacred altar inthe Holy of Holies in the
House of the Lord and there plead to the Lord to spare President Woodruff ’s life, that President Woodruff might outlive him and that the
great responsibilityof Church leadership would not fall upon his shoulders. Yet he promised the Lord that he would devotedly perform
any duty required at his hands. . . .
“. . . [On 2 September 1898, after receiving word of the death of Wilford Woodruff, President Snow] went to his private room in the Salt Lake Temple.
“President Snow put on his holy temple robes,repaired again to the same sacred altar, offered up the signs of the Priesthood and poured out his heart to the Lord. He reminded the Lord how he plead for President Woodruff ’s life to be spared, that President Woodruff ’s days would be lengthened beyond his own; that he might never be called upon to bear the heavy burdens and responsibilities of the Church. ‘Nevertheless,’ he said, ‘Thy will be done. I have not sought this responsibility but if it be Thy will, I now present myself before Thee
for Thy guidance and instruction. I ask that Thou show
me what Thou wouldst have me do. ’“After finishing his prayer he expected a reply, some special manifestation from the Lord. So he waited,—and waited—and waited. There was no reply, no voice, no visitation, no manifestation. He left the altar and the room in great disappointment. Passing through the Celestial room and out into the large corridor a glorious manifestation was given President Snow which I relate in the words of his grand-daughter, Allie Young Pond. . . .
Alice Armeda Snow Young Pond (1876–43), heard her grandfather, President Lorenzo Snow, share his experience of the Lord’s visit in the
Salt Lake Temple.
“‘One evening while I was visiting grandpa Snow in his room in the Salt Lake Temple, I remained until the door keepers had gone and the night-watchmen had not yet come in, so grand-pa said he would take me to the main front entrance and let me out that way. He got his bunch of keys from his dresser. After we left his room and while we were still in the large corridor leading into the celestial room, I was walking several steps ahead of grand-pa when he stopped me and said:
“Wait a moment, Allie, I want to tell you something. It was right here that the Lord Jesus Christ appeared to me at the time of the death of President Woodruff. He instructed me to go right ahead and reorganize the First Presidency of the Church at once and not wait as had been done after the death of the previous presidents, and that I was to succeed President Woodruff.”
“‘Then grand-pa came a step nearer and held out his left hand and said: “He stood right here, about three feet above the floor. It looked as though He stood on a plate of solid gold.”
“‘Grand-pa told me what a glorious personage the Savior is and described His hands, feet, countenance and beautiful white robes, all of which were of such a glory of whiteness and brightness that he could hardly gaze upon Him.
“‘Then he came another step nearer and put his right hand on my head and said: “Now, grand-daughter, I want you to remember that this is the testimony of your grand-father, that he told you with his own lips that he actually saw the Savior, here in the Temple, and talked
with Him face to face”’” (LeRoi C. Snow, “An Experience of My Father’s,” Improvement Era, Sept. 1933, 677).

Do you deny all of these?

This is the Saviors church.

Gaz


Dontcha love it when muslims quote the Koran? I guess if they quote Mohammed it MUST be true. Same goes for you blue-collar-boy. One persons scripture is another persons toilet paper. Especially those free book of Mormons, but damn do they chap my a$$.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_Runtu
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Re: Your faith

Post by _Runtu »

Gazelam wrote:I am simply asking what it is that you believe, why do you feel the need to dance around the question?

I base my faith on the witness of the Holy Ghost that came as a direct answer to my prayer.


I didn't dance around any question. If I had a "faith," I would tell you what it was based on.

The odd thing is that Harmston, Strang, Eddy, and their followers will all tellyou that they have the witness of the Holy Ghost. You can't all be right. What makes your witness more valid than theirs?
_harmony
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Re: Runtu

Post by _harmony »

...blue-collar-boy.


Nothing wrong with being a blue collar worker. The country's economy is based on them.
_Mercury
_Emeritus
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Re: Runtu

Post by _Mercury »

harmony wrote:
...blue-collar-boy.


Nothing wrong with being a blue collar worker. The country's economy is based on them.


Nothing wrong with blue collar workers, no...unless you are one who values working with you mind instead of your hands.

(opens can of wriggly nematoda)
I don't hate blue collar workers but they are of a different social order than the more...um, educated.

Go ahead. Give me the attention that I crave!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:P
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_OUT OF MY MISERY
_Emeritus
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Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:32 pm

Re: Runtu

Post by _OUT OF MY MISERY »

VegasRefugee wrote:
harmony wrote:
...blue-collar-boy.


Nothing wrong with being a blue collar worker. The country's economy is based on them.


Nothing wrong with blue collar workers, no...unless you are one who values working with you mind instead of your hands.

(opens can of wriggly nematoda)
I don't hate blue collar workers but they are of a different social order than the more...um, educated.

Go ahead. Give me the attention that I crave!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:P



Attention...Attention...Atttention...Attention

i prefer being a white collar person....hence my pursuit of a college degree
When I wake up I will be hungry....but this feels so good right now aaahhhhhh........
_Gazelam
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Runtu and Harmony

Post by _Gazelam »

Image

I know that Harmony has a belief in God, I do not know about Runtu, although on principle I myself do not believe in Atheists.

I have heard of a universalist belief in God described as being a belief in a "Grandfather" God, one who lets the kids run around and do what they want, all will be ok in the end, as long as a good time is had by all. Believe what you want, everythings ok.

Harmony your belief sounds more like that of a "Baby Daddy" God. One who has sired you, but is never around and never makes appearences, leaving you bastardized and wondering what happened and why you don't have the love of a Father you should have.

The truth is that God is your Father in Heaven. He makes you a part of his life when you approach him and obey the commandments he has made know by the prophets through Jesus Christ. He makes himself known to you also by way of the Holy Ghost who he sends forth as a comforter and teacher. You can seperate emotion from the Holy Ghost by the edifying knowledge that flows through you when he is present.

The Father has not left us alone, he has instructed us time and again through his prophets in all ages since time began, and we may se him face to face if we are faithful and obedient.

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_harmony
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Re: Runtu and Harmony

Post by _harmony »

You may feel you need prophets (men) to intercede for you with God. I don't. I see no reason to allow anyone between me and God. Men may be needed to run the church, since God's busy with other things, but I'm not interested in running the church. No offense, but it's a downright mean-spirited church more often than not, so I'll leave the running of it to downright mean-spirited men (women need not apply, therefore we cannot be blamed when men run it into the ground). Maybe if the church exhibited a Christ-like devotion to important things like kindness and loving one's neighbor I'd be more impressed, but all I see lately is a church more interested in public approval than God's approval, more interested in spending God's money on malls and flower gardens than on helping mankind, and more concerned about maintaining their stranglehold on their members' information than in furthering knowledge and correcting past mistakes.

My relationship with God is what sustains me, Gaz. My love for the LDS church is what keeps me putting one foot in front of the other to make whatever small improvements I can influence. Neither require a man to make it work for me.
_Gazelam
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The Lords Church

Post by _Gazelam »

Was the publishing of a Book like Rough Stone Rolling by Bushman an attempt at covering up the past? Its sold mainly through Deseret Book, and was heavily advertised. To my knowledge all of Josephs Smiths writings and teaching are readily available to whoever wants to read them. Where is the deception and hiding?

What should be sought after by anyone who wishs to worship God in truth is what God taught to Adam. After the Fall Adam sought redemption and a return to the relationship he shared with God in the Garden of Eden.

This is a excerpt from a Hugh Nibley article listing various Non-mormon sources about Adam and the plan of redemption:

Image
Figure 50. From a 1934 copy of an old Mandaean magic scroll, Adam, Sitil, and other perfected souls in priestly dress give the kusta, or ritual hand-grasp, to each other.


The Sent Ones emerge most frequently and most dramatically in the apocryphal literature in the story of Adam. "After the physical Adam was created," says the new apocryphal Book of John, "a messenger was sent to the head of all creations, Adam, and at his call Adam awoke and said, 'How the precious, beautiful life has been planted in this place. But it is hard on me down here.' Then the Sent One reminded Adam and said, 'But your beautiful throne awaits you, Adam. Why then do you, the image of God, sit here complaining? All this is being done for your good. I have been sent to teach you, Adam, and to free you from this world. Listen and return to the light.'" Then the messenger gives him instructions.129 The Ginza (which means "a treasure, mystery, what is hidden and precious") tells us, "when Adam stood praying for light and knowledge, a helper came to him, gave him a garment, and told him, 'Those men who gave you the garment will assist you throughout your life until you are ready to leave earth.'"130 The commonest account, also found in the Ginza, is that "When Adam was created, he was found in a deep sleep, from which he was awakened by a helper, who forthwith began to instruct him. And at his death also, the Sent Ones came to take Adam back to the great first Paternal House and to the places in which he formerly dwelt."131

It describes how he went back: "First - he was taken to a place of detention, a shomai (a treasure place] - where he meets the one who holds the nails of glory and the signs in the hands, and the key of the kushta of both arms."132 That is the code for the signs that Adam had to receive - his instructions. The one who holds the nails of glory, and the signs in the hands, and the key to the initiation rites is the master of the Treasure House (fig. 50). "Hither a messenger from the house of light was sent to fetch Adam farther when he was ready."133 The reason it is so often the Adam of Light, the premortal Adam, who is sent to help suffering humanity (he's our great helper), is that he, as our first Father, was himself thus helped in the beginning. He couldn't have helped himself out of things had not a Savior been provided.

"When Adam awoke," we are told in the Ginza, "he faced the light and called for help. The Lord Himself approached him, in glory, and took him by the palm of the right hand and calmed him and instructed him. Then he comforted Eve. In this way, I have brought joy and aid to his descendants."134 "The Sent Ones came to bring hope to Adam, who was in the image of God."135

This "Adam incident" is repeated in the case of Abraham, who took a trip to heaven, to the stars, and when his spirit came back to his body, he awoke as if from sleep or a daze. After he had first spoken with the Lord, he fell to earth, for his spirit had left his body, which "became as a stone." "Then the angel who had been sent to me took me by the right hand and said, 'Abraham, awake and arise! I have been sent to you to strengthen you and bless you in the name of the Creator.'" Then the angel instructed him.136

In the vast majority of accounts, it is three Sent Ones who instruct Adam. There is no conflict, since the Sent Ones are many. They come whenever they are needed. Indeed, according to sources, Adam himself was one of the three great Sent Ones who created the world in the beginning. The Berlin Papyrus says, "The first man was the third of the Sent Ones - the Father, the Son, and Adam" - when they came down to create the world. According to the Apocryphon of Adam, Adam was awakened from a deep sleep by three men from on high, who said to him, "Adam arise and hear the teachings of the Savior."137 "It was through a team of three," according to the Sophia Christi, "that God created everything, employing them as his agents."138 As the Abbat?/i>puts it, "The Father instructed the Son, who in turn instructed that first angel to go down and form a new world." But they didn't merely delegate the work, they worked together. "The three," says our source, "stretched forth their hands, took clay, and made man. And many expeditions were sent to the earth before things were ready to receive Adam."139 "Whenever that life-giving spark is sent to initiate a first step of creation in the material world, it is always followed by three Sent Ones who come down to give proper instructions. So in any world, those that receive the spark (the word sent from God) will also find three helpers sent to instruct them."140

At the creation, says the Ginza, God gave orders that the angels should come to keep Adam company. At the beginning, it was the Lord himself and two companions who instructed Adam and Eve in everything.141 "When Adam was placed on earth, three messengers were sent to oversee him, with myself at their head," says the Lord to the apostles during the forty days.142 "1 taught Adam and Eve the hymns, and the order of prayer, and the ordinances which would help one to return to the presence of the Father."143 "I'm sending three, God says to them, giving them instructions. He said to the pure Sent One, his Son, 'Go call Adam and Eve and all their posterity and teach them concerning everything about the Kingdom of Light and the Worlds of Light. Be friendly with Adam and keep him company, you and the two angels which will be with you. Warn them against Satan; also, teach them chastity.'"144

Because the three were always there to supervise, the evil spirits protested. They didn't like the interruption. A very interesting passage from the Ginza says, "The evil spirits, who claim this world for their own, resent the Sent Ones' instructions. These three men are in the world," they say, "but they are not really men. They are light and glory, and they have come down to little 'Enosh' [physical man - Adam] who is helpless and alone in the world. They are intruding on our world. The children of men have taken over the earth. They are really strangers who speak the language of the three men. They have accepted the teachings of the three men and rejected us in our own world. They refuse to acknowledge our kingdom and our glory." The devils don't like the three men interrupting their program and spoiling things. "Thus, the evil ones plotted to overthrow Adam, who was hoping for Mandadihaya (Teacher of Life), the messenger from the Father, to come"145 and give him aid and support. We read also of another team of three men: When Adam called upon God, the Great Spirit sent them from the land of brightness, those who would belong to the twelve. So at one time three of the apostles were sent down. These were the three, the pillars of the Church as described later in the New Testament in Galatians 2:9 - Peter, James, and John (cf. Matthew 17:1). Whenever that expression is used - "The three who belonged to the twelve" - it means Peter, James, and John, who were hidden then within the veil of light (Goodenough shows who they were). The three Sent Ones in another account are Michael, Raphael, and Gabriel. But if you go to the same account in the earlier Greek version, they are the Father, Michael and the angels, when Jesus says, "I will come, and my Father, and Michael." So it's Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael (and all the angels); this is the highest committee (cf. fig. 47, p. 239).

Throughout Christian literature, going to heaven is consistently described as a return to an old home, which raises the notion of premortal existence. In the First Apocalypse of James, the Lord says to the apostles, "They will ask you where you are going. Your answer: The place from which I came. I return to that place."146 "The elect are those individuals," says the Gospel of Thomas, "who shall find the Kingdom, because they came from it in the first place."147 The Gospel of Truth dwells at length on the theme of the return:

Whoever has this knowledge is a being from on high. When he is called, he hears, answers, and turns toward him who calls and reascends to him. He knows when he is called; he knows whence he has come, and where he is going. He has turned many from error and proceeded unto places which belong to them, but from which they have strayed. Joy to the man who has rediscovered himself, awakened, and has helped others to wake up.148


Those are non-mormon sources discussing very Mormon things. To understand what Adam knew, is to understand our God and the plan of salvation.

Gaz

Source: http://farms.BYU.edu/display.php?table=transcripts&id=57
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Mercury
_Emeritus
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Re: The Lords Church

Post by _Mercury »

Gazelam wrote:Was the publishing of a Book like Rough Stone Rolling by Bushman an attempt at covering up the past? Its sold mainly through Deseret Book, and was heavily advertised. To my knowledge all of Josephs Smiths writings and teaching are readily available to whoever wants to read them. Where is the deception and hiding?

What should be sought after by anyone who wishs to worship God in truth is what God taught to Adam. After the Fall Adam sought redemption and a return to the relationship he shared with God in the Garden of Eden.

This is a excerpt from a Hugh Nibley article listing various Non-mormon sources about Adam and the plan of redemption:

Image
Figure 50. From a 1934 copy of an old Mandaean magic scroll, Adam, Sitil, and other perfected souls in priestly dress give the kusta, or ritual hand-grasp, to each other.


This is just one of the many infantile and culturally abhorrent pieces of pseudoscience to come out of FARMS. It isn't Adam, its not the kolob space god and it is not your petty marginalized cult being depicted in the picture.

Nibley was not an anthopologist. He was a Mormon shill. The academic community, those who have heard of it, think it is ludicrous.

You, nibley and the tapir spying lard ass don't have a clue as to what actual anthropological academia is. DCP rejects the peer review process because he is a failure. His own professors either don't remember him or LITERALLY LAUGH at the thought of his apologetic "scholarship". Nibley was the first of many crank apologists in a long line of pseudoscientific attempts at Mormon credibility. The only reason it still stands is because of suckers like you who fund the damn cespool by buying into the faith-promoting shell game in which disconnected cave paintings from 5 different cultures resemble the temple ceremony WHEN YOU HAVE ALREADY DECIDED WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR ANYWAYS!!!!!!!!
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Re: Runtu and Harmony

Post by _Runtu »

Gazelam wrote:Image

I know that Harmony has a belief in God, I do not know about Runtu, although on principle I myself do not believe in Atheists.

I have heard of a universalist belief in God described as being a belief in a "Grandfather" God, one who lets the kids run around and do what they want, all will be ok in the end, as long as a good time is had by all. Believe what you want, everythings ok.

Harmony your belief sounds more like that of a "Baby Daddy" God. One who has sired you, but is never around and never makes appearences, leaving you bastardized and wondering what happened and why you don't have the love of a Father you should have.

The truth is that God is your Father in Heaven. He makes you a part of his life when you approach him and obey the commandments he has made know by the prophets through Jesus Christ. He makes himself known to you also by way of the Holy Ghost who he sends forth as a comforter and teacher. You can seperate emotion from the Holy Ghost by the edifying knowledge that flows through you when he is present.

The Father has not left us alone, he has instructed us time and again through his prophets in all ages since time began, and we may se him face to face if we are faithful and obedient.

Gaz


I never said I was an atheist, Gaz. I just do not believe he speaks through adulterous frauds.
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