Mr. Itchy, Response and dialog.

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_keene
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Mr. Itchy, Response and dialog.

Post by _keene »

Note to mods: Do not edit my post for language, I'll just change it back anyway.

Note to all: Certain names have been changed or removed to protect the innocent.

Sorry folks, we had to edit out the foul language. Is this an idle threat? Is Keene trying to control the information on the internet? What legal "repurcussions" [sic] could he be talking about?

MoronDiscussions.com editors want you, dear reader, to know the truth!


Word has it that Keene tries to intimidate women posters and is mean to kids. Calling children with Down Syndrome "retards" went out a long time ago (especially calling non-developmentally delayed kids "retarded"), about the time calling them "Mongoloids" did.

So lets take each point and discuss them.


1. We here at Mr. Itchy's Guide totally agree. There are enough unstable people such as those that frequent MormonDiscussions.com having your personal information on a website in full view probably isn't a wise thing to do.


2. Again we here at Mr. Itchy's Guide agree. Keene is a wise man. We here at Mr. Itchy's guide think creating accounts to work around security measures or to talk to yourself is indeed childish.


3. Keene the almighty must work for DoD to have the tools that no one is safe from him. It also looks like if you do something on a different site he has the right to moderate you there also. This statement seems rather ironic "whether on this site or not" since this is exactly what his patrons complain about on other sites. What legal repercussions could Keene be talking about? There are not many. However we editors at Mr. Itchy's Guide to the morons at MormonDiscussions.com take the law very seriously. This is why our site is only filled with factual public information available and source cited with links on the great world wide web. Any editor that resorts to slander or libel will face the wrath of Mr. Itchy or Keene, the network God himself, since no one is anonymous from him.


4. We agree, however, we editors at Mr. Itchy's guide prefer not to demean our special needs friends, and hope Keene will take some sensitivity training classes to fix his bigoted attitude towards the mentally challenged.


If you have any comments on any of these posts please feel free to submit them. We will review them. If they fit our agenda we will put them up right away. However, as at MD.com, if they don't we will delete them or edit them to fit our needs.


First things first, why edit my language? When I say a word, I mean it. Punk.

So, what "word" has it that I threaten women posters and am mean to kids? That's an awesome word, wherever it is. I totally agree, threatening women and children rules. Makes life worth living. Why, just the other day, I found both a woman and child, and I told them that if they didn't eat their peas, they'd go to hell. Then I stabbed them in the face with a spork. The lamp's carrot requires more circles, for true maniacal socks to survive the granite bell. Do you understand how incredibly ridiculous that is, yet?

In all seriousness, what the hell is this? What are you trying to accomplish with this website of yours? It's like you're a child throwing a tantrum. "But, Mom! They got to talk about stuff! I never got to do it!"

Grow up.

1.) Posting in real life names of people online can be dangerous to their livelihood and person. This goes for everybody. You are responsible for your posts and information, so don't try to pass the buck onto the mods or onto a "But they did it!" routine. This is true of everywhere, not just this site. It's not a site policy, it's damned common sense. That means, if posting the information could bring harm to others, then think before posting it -- those others may have the right to sue you. If the in real life name of someone is widely known, then suck it up, it's part of being a celebrity. Everyone knows Matt Damon, and posting his in real life name won't do crap. Same goes for Mormon Celebs, or people who simply go by their in real life name. BUT! Keep in mind that people have a reasonable assumption of privacy -- if you have to look at many different places, and "Dig" for a name, then revealing that information could not only be harmful, but illegal.

2.) Illegal activity has consequences. It's that simple. If you were to post information about where to obtain drugs, then you would probably be looking forward to a visit from the cops. If you were to post plans on an assassination, you can guarantee a visit from the Secret Service. If you post information that may be harmful to a persons well-being, you may get sued. Don't be stupid.

3.) It takes a lot less than the DoD to find out who someone is -- Obviously, a lot of people have been finding these things out lately. That was the whole cause of this. You have a reasonable assumption and right to privacy, but if you commit and illegal act, let it be known that it is VERY easy to find you.

4.) The concept of "sensitivity" by altering your language is BS. What about the golden rule? "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." To alter your language for sensitivity is dishonest, and I'll have none of it.

And finally,

“F” CENSORSHIP!

a.) The 3 forums are self-censored, with minimal mod interaction, simply to please the likes of whiney Mormons who can't deal with a good “F” every now and then. The Terrestrial forum has no censorship.

b.) Illegal activity is not censored by choice, but by necessity. Don't argue with me, argue with the law.

c.) The "Agenda" is determined by what people say, not by what is moderated. Prove me wrong, point me to a deleted post that didn't have something to do with selling viagra. If I find it, I'll restore it.
_Randall
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Post by _Randall »

Am I the only one with these questions (no one else has posted yet after 65 views):

1. Who is Mr. Itchy?

and

2. Why should we care about this?
"Kill all the lawyers!" - Walmart. Shakespeare
_________________
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Randall wrote:Am I the only one with these questions (no one else has posted yet after 65 views):

1. Who is Mr. Itchy?

and

2. Why should we care about this?


Those are real good questions, Randall. Weren't you the poster who posted this little number on ZLMB under the guise of contributing to a discusson regarding Chapel/Internet Mormons?

http://p080.ezboard.com/fpacumenispagesfrm79.showMessageRange?topicID=486.topic&start=21&stop=25

Randy MD
ZLoMBie
Posts: 15
(11/23/06 1:55 pm)
Reply Re: Chapel/Internet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For those interested, I found a site that links to a lot of the discussions about Internet vs. Chapel Mormons. There have been some good one on ZLMB as well as FAIR and Times & Seasons.

www.morondiscussions.com/

You have to scroll down to the Dr. Shades section.

I've found the "Internet vs. Chapel Mormon" thing a false dichotomy and not very useful, other than stimulating lots of discussions on the Internet.
---------------------------------------
"Kill all the lawyers!" - Walmart. Shakespeare

Edited by: Randy MD at: 11/23/06 2:00 pm


I think the more accurate inquiry would be...why do you care about it enough to plaster it publicly on one board then inquire about it on this board?

Honest to Pete, folks. I have never seen so much smoke and mirrors, cloak and dagger, sock puppeteering and outright nuttery as I have on these boards lately. It is not to be believed.

Jersey Girl
_keene
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Post by _keene »

Randall wrote:Am I the only one with these questions (no one else has posted yet after 65 views):

1. Who is Mr. Itchy?

and

2. Why should we care about this?


Mr. Itchy, as he likes to call himself, is a Mormon Discussions Stalker. He's been stalking users, and posting their personal information, or hinting at it just enough to scare them. He seems to feel some sort of personal vendetta against this site in particular. The acts he's doing are highly illegal, annoying, and downright terrifying for some. I'm not sure what he's trying to accomplish, but mostly it just seems like cyber terrorism.

Why should you care? Because he's created a blog directly aimed at "exposing" Mormon discussions users. He claims hypocrisy on our part as his justification for his acts, although his claims are quite large leaps of logic. It more closely matches a tantrum.
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

keene wrote:
Randall wrote:Am I the only one with these questions (no one else has posted yet after 65 views):

1. Who is Mr. Itchy?

and

2. Why should we care about this?


Mr. Itchy, as he likes to call himself, is a Mormon Discussions Stalker. He's been stalking users, and posting their personal information, or hinting at it just enough to scare them. He seems to feel some sort of personal vendetta against this site in particular. The acts he's doing are highly illegal, annoying, and downright terrifying for some. I'm not sure what he's trying to accomplish, but mostly it just seems like cyber terrorism.

Why should you care? Because he's created a blog directly aimed at "exposing" Mormon discussions users. He claims hypocrisy on our part as his justification for his acts, although his claims are quite large leaps of logic. It more closely matches a tantrum.


Where is this blog? Is it open to the public, or do we have to know the secret password?
_OUT OF MY MISERY
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Post by _OUT OF MY MISERY »

We can fight fire with fire if need be....Mr.Itchy does freak me out...

What can or should we do here??
When I wake up I will be hungry....but this feels so good right now aaahhhhhh........
_keene
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Post by _keene »

I'd still rather not announce to the world where his blog is, because he still has the personal information of our posters on it. Unfortunately, this guy continuously posts it on other boards as well as this one.

As for fighting fire with fire -- I easily could reveal who "Mr. Itchy" is, but I'd rather not stoop to his level. It's just childish. "You started it!" Ugh. No, if Mr. Itchy would like to discuss things rationally, that's fine, but his childish antics aren't going to bring me down.

"Never fight a battle of wits against an unarmed foe."

I've currently got a legal team working on the case for the safety of our posters, but you've also got to keep your own safety in mind. The internet is risky business, there will always be stalkers and stupid people out there, and there is a wide variety of tools out there to dig up your information. Be careful about what you put out there, and remember that almost anything can be cross-referenced to find you. Hell, if you google my name, you'll get my phone number in the top 3 results.

Don't call unless you're pretty. ;)
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Randall,

It occurs to me that I might possibly owe you an apology. It is highly likely that someone has stolen your identity and that you may be as much a victim of this type of behavior as others. What do you think?

Jersey Girl
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

So will you at least give us a hint? Is it a poster on this board? Obviously it's a poster from FAIR. I have a couple of guesses. ;)
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_keene
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Post by _keene »

The mighty Keene responds with another threat to Mr. Itchy's Guide to the morons on mormondiscussions.com!
Let us start off with this quote from eff.org:
""Internet bullies shouldn't use copyright, libel, or other claims to chill your legitimate speech." (See OPG v. Diebold.) Mister Keene ,you are an internet bully!"


Legitimate speech being the key word in that quote. I have no problem with most of your posts, the one I do have a problem with is the one that could potentially ruin the life, career, and health of one of my posters.

1. We are a family web site and choose to filter language so all may enjoy our site. (Remember, our only rule is no profanity or vulgarity!)


Fair enough.

2. "Why, just the other day, I found both a woman and a child and I told them that if they didn't eat their peas, they'd go to hell. Then I stabbed them in the face with a spork." Do I need to say more? Your violent and bullying nature is sure coming out.


Not a sarcasm buff, I take it?

3. A mirror and big nice shiny mirror. The work great if you actually look into them.


A mirror works well if it doesn't distort. Otherwise, you'll make things look absurd.

4. I wont grow up or shut up; when I look at your face I throw up; then you come and lick it up.


Okay, that's an awesome response. I gotta give you points there.

Mr Itchy's responses the above paragraphs:
1.) We agree; however, posting public information about public persons should be expected (and is legal). Just because you claim your hands are clean, doesn't mean you didn't forget to scrub under your nails. Mr. Itchy makes sure all his posts do not contain anything that can be characterized as defamation or libel. You don't. Is this a threat? You should fire whoever is giving you your legal advice. Maybe these articles will help you out. Let me refer you to a few articles on the subject.


Public information about public persons is definitely okay. But, Dr. Shades had in no place linked his name to his pseudonym. That linkage is NOT public knowledge.

From http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs18-cyb.htm:
'Laws concerning your privacy on the Internet are still being developed. The three branches of government view the Internet's potential and pitfalls differently. To date, the Supreme Court has taken a hands-off approach to regulating the Internet in favor of free speech. However, the federal government is increasingly interested in regulating the Internet, for example through child pornography and gambling laws. On the other hand, the White House appears to welcome the lack of restriction on data sharing and surveillance." [Note: Mr. Itchy is not involved in porography, gambling, or trademark infringement.]

From http://gsulaw.gsu.edu/lawand/papers/fa04/layden/ :
"Defamation consists of false and unprivileged publication which results in economic damages. Financial loss is not necessary where the statement implies that a person is a criminal or has an unpleasant disease, or which injures a person in respect to his other office, profession, or business.
. . . .
Internet users sometimes do not realize the amount of privacy that is lost when accessing the online world. Usenet postings and contributions to bulletin boards may remain archived forever. Public records are available free or for a fee. While much of this information has been freely available in the past, the advent of the Internet has made it available more easily and quickly."


My lawyers will do the legal mumbo jumbo. I've not named any crimes, because I don't care to find the definition and wade through the BS. I've got guys who went to school for that kind of thing. What you have done may not be defined under those terms, but making that link and publishing the information could cause financial or physical harm to members of this site. I'll let the lawyers find out what the word for that is.

Mr. Itchy: You, Mean Keene, are deemed an "Internet Bully" by the EFF. Please read this site http://www.eff.org/bloggers/lg/ and educate yourself on the subject. A quote we like is:

"Freedom of speech is the foundation of a functioning democracy, and Internet bullies shouldn't use the law to stifle legitimate free ____expression. That's why EFF created this guide, compiling a number of FAQs designed to help you understand your rights and, if necessary, defend your freedom. "


Again, legitimate being the key word.

2.) We agree; however, you will be hard pressed to find any illegal activity on this site.


Most of the site is fine, yes. Your linking Dr. Shades to his name is not. Take that down, and I have no issue with you.

3.) I agree its easy to find information on the Internet. Yes, if you have a lot to loose and cannot own your words, perhaps you shouldn't say them or at least show some restraint. We agree there is a reasonable assumption of privacy; however, your board chooses to infringe on posters' rights by bullying them over to defend themselves on a site they do not want to participate on. You Mean Keene encourage it. Everyone also has a reasonable assumption of not being harassed, and you go far more then break that rule.


All posters on this site are solely responsible for the information they put on this site -- it simply cannot be expected of anyone to keep a perfect eye on any community site. If illegal or damaging information is on this site, my e-mail is easily found, and I will gladly remove it. If you feel like legal repercussion needs to be made to one of my members, I won't stop you from taking action. If someone is doing something illegal on my site, I'll fix it. But you cannot expect me to keep a perfect watchful eye on the community. It's just not possible. It's up to the community to report this information so it can be dealt with accordingly -- It's like that for every board.

4."Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Ahhh the golden rule. We here at Mr. Itchy's guide to the morons on your site are in harmony with it. By the way since when did you believe in the Bible? Sensitivity shows respect to the person you are talking to. You, sir, are a man with little respect for your neighbors and fellow humans and like you said "I'll have none of it."


Since when did I believe in the Bible? Hmm... Sounds like someone's making a faulty assumption, just like you have been about the rest of what's going on here. I am a faithful christian, I believe that the Bible speaks a highly metaphysical truth.

Sensitivity does NOT show respect to who you're talking to, it shows a lack of respect from them, and a cowardice on your part to be yourself. I have little respect for my neighbor's and fellow human's BS. I have high respect for who they are, but very rarely do I have respect for how they behave -- or how they expect others to behave.

Mr. Itchy responds:
Yes, finally.
WE AGREE SO STOP THREATENING ME AND MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH. IT WORKS BOTH WAYS FREE SPEECH DOES NOT END WITH YOU!


I am not threatening your freedom of speech. I am informing you of illegal activity. Say whatever you want, whenever you want, about whoever you want, but don't jeopardize their lives on account of it. This is a two-way street and goes for everybody here, not just you. Again, my e-mail is freely available and I'm always happy to help. But don't go blaming me for your silence. The avenue is open.

a.) Perhaps you should teach your patrons more self control. I thought you all invited Mormons to your site. This isn't a good way to attract them. My board has no censorship either. Anything goes as long as its factual and doesn't use profanity or vulgarity.


They're invited, although attraction is their own choice. As for self-control, I would like to focus on the self- part of that. If I'm teaching them, it's hardly self- at that point, is it not? Seems logical that self-control is up to the self involved.

b.) We agree, that's why this board is protected from your censoring. We have noticed that on your board, certain responses are posted then quickly removed, hidden, or changed from the original context to fit your agenda. We think that's lame. You will not see that on our site - unless the replies to not fit our agenda of course. by the way, would you please cite which laws this site breaks? Which specific text on my blog breaks which specific laws please and in what state or country?
c.) We could care less about your moderation habits on your board, or the lack there of.


b.) and c.) show a huge disparity in the answers. You say you don't care about the moderation habits, yet you have 3 posts about the moderation habits. If you don't care, then why do you care so much? Also, if you continuously say that we edit our posts to fit our "agenda" but have no proof of it, then it does qualify as libel. If you do have proof of it, let me know so I can fix it -- if there IS a problem, then I'll fix it immediately, as soon as it is brought to my attention. My e-mail is keenemaverick@gmail.com, and I'm happy to serve.

And no, I will not cite the law -- my lawyers will. Again, I'm a techie, I went to school to learn computers. I'll pay the guys who went to school to play with law books.

Sincerely and respectfully,
Mr. Itchy


Also sincerely,
Mean Keene (I think I like the sound of that....)
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