healing/recovery through venting?

[_beastie]

Wade doesn't have a history of asking questions with the intent of obtaining information from other people. He seems to ask questions for which he has already determined the "true" answer, and this enables him to ignore information provided by others that would seem to challenge his predetermined opinion.

[_Runtu]

Wade doesn't have a history of asking questions with the intent of obtaining information from other people. He seems to ask questions for which he has already determined the "true" answer, and this enables him to ignore information provided by others that would seem to challenge his predetermined opinion.

You've noticed that, too, have you? And for expressing that such has been my experience with Wade, I was labeled a conspiracy theorist with a fertile imagination. :-)

[_Yoda]

You've noticed that, too, have you? And for expressing that such has been my experience with Wade, I was labeled a conspiracy theorist with a fertile imagination. :-)

Runtu...you're such a conspiracy theorist! ;) That's why I like ya! LOL

[_Runtu]

You've noticed that, too, have you? And for expressing that such has been my experience with Wade, I was labeled a conspiracy theorist with a fertile imagination. :-)

Runtu...you're such a conspiracy theorist! ;) That's why I like ya! LOL

You must be one too if we agree on Wade's MO. It's not like he's particularly subtle about it.

And I like you, too!

[_desert_vulture]

Oh...and one more thing. Yes, I do think there are legitimate reasons to vent and grieve (i.e. in cases where it is not a function of cognitive distortions). Obviously!

As explained to Shades over a year ago, there are real cases of victimization and mistaken perceptions of victimization. I used the example of a women who was brutally raped and traumatized in her home as an example of real victimization, and I used the example of her elderly sister (who had been traumatized after hearing of her sisters rape), who mistook as an assault a boy scout who had taken hold of her arm to help her step down from the curb and cross the street.

Similar things can happen with venting and grieving.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I guess I'm that old lady, and the church is the Boy Scout who has taken me by the arm to "help" me across the street. I'm at the stage where I am thanking the Boy Scout for his help, while simultaneously asking him why he is rifling through my purse, barking out orders to me while crossing the street, telling me I have to live my life in accord with the Boy Scout handbook, and telling me that I am an evil arrogant person for trying to cross the street without his assistance. All the while he is "instructing" me, I notice that his badges are hand-me downs he never earned himself, his uniform doesn't match, his rank advancement badge is a cheap counterfeit, and he hasn't even taken a shower. This little old lady will cross the street alone, thank you very much, and resist the impulse to beat the boy scout with an umbrella, and simply utter a "thank you for your help."

[_Runtu]

I guess I'm that old lady, and the church is the Boy Scout who has taken me by the arm to "help" me across the street. I'm at the stage where I am thanking the Boy Scout for his help, while simultaneously asking him why he is rifling through my purse, barking out orders to me while crossing the street, telling me I have to live my life in accord with the Boy Scout handbook, and telling me that I have an evil person for trying to cross the street without his assistance. All the while he is "instructing" me, I notice that his badges are hand-me downs he never earned himself, his uniform doesn't match, his rank advancement badge is a cheap counterfeit, and he hasn't even taken a shower. This little old lady will cross the street alone, thank you very much, and resist the impulse to beat the boy scout with an umbrella, and simply utter a "thank you for your help."

You are then a poster child for what Wade describes. You can't just appreciate the boy's service. Your obsession with flaws and ulterior motives leads you to suspicion and outright hate. Seriously, you need to fix that distorted cognition pronto, or you might end up in the Home for Deranged Apostates.

If only life were that easy. And if only Wade were even half-serious about trying to help.

[_Yoda]

Well, Runtu, I guess that makes DV a "conspiracy theorist with a fertile imagination", too! ;)

[_wenglund]

I asked earlier:

But, the issue really goes beyond that, doesn't it? It is not just a matter of acknowledging that people see things differently. Rather, it is a matter of determining, in everyone's best interest, what is valid and appropriate or not, and what works and what doesn't. From my perspective, the folks at RFM are, through cognitive distortions, unnecessarily creating their own pain and suffering and anger and loss, and the manner in which they are mis-directing their venting and grieving adds to, and unnecessarily prolongs, the cyle of pain and suffering and anger and loss for themselves as well as for others. What I am proposing is a proven method for RFMers and others like them to stop their own pain and suffering and anger and loss, and keep them from causing undue pain and suffering and anger and loss to others. Who wouldn't want that?

Well, it appears that there are not a few on this board who apparently don't want that.

Why do you suppose that is?

Do you suppose it is because they don't trust me?

Well...it is likely that they will offer that as an excuse (if they haven't already--i.e. Runtu). But, even were I to point them to authoritative resources, it is unlikely that they would take me up on it. So, in truth, it isn't about trust.

Rather, for some (if not most) I suspect it may have much more to do with near paranoia of thinking themselves WRONG again. A lot of negative emotion and energy has been expended, and it would be disheartening to see it all turn out for not--or worse yet, to find that it was seriously misdirected. They would just as soon continue swirling themselves and others deeper into negativity and socio-emotional debt and supposedly save face, than effectively heal themselves and stop the cycle of hurt and anger and loss. In other words, they will continue driving around with an emotional flat tire and risking significant damage to their own socio-psychological vehicle as well as other vehicles, because their egos won't let them believe the constant thumping isn't, as they suppose, a Mormon rock in their tread. It is the epitomy of dysfunction.

...and then there are the very well intended, but unwitting enablers (truth dancer and liz take a bow).

Here is the deal. I can offer you a proven way out of the dysfunction. But, if you are unwilling to take it, and choose instead to foment the hurt and anger and hatred and loss to yourselves and other (in other words, if you don't take hold of the life ring, but continue to flail away in the cesspool of self-pity, false victimizaton, gossip, profanation, mockery, mud-slinging, etc.), then action will need to be taken to protect others from your dysfunction and "sickness". You have been somewhat quarantined here and at MTT and RFM. But the world will also need to be warned against the infectuous desease of bigotry that is endemic at these locations. The choice is yours.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[cacheman]

I asked earlier:

But, the issue really goes beyond that, doesn't it? It is not just a matter of acknowledging that people see things differently. Rather, it is a matter of determining, in everyone's best interest, what is valid and appropriate or not, and what works and what doesn't. From my perspective, the folks at RFM are, through cognitive distortions, unnecessarily creating their own pain and suffering and anger and loss, and the manner in which they are mis-directing their venting and grieving adds to, and unnecessarily prolongs, the cyle of pain and suffering and anger and loss for themselves as well as for others. What I am proposing is a proven method for RFMers and others like them to stop their own pain and suffering and anger and loss, and keep them from causing undue pain and suffering and anger and loss to others. Who wouldn't want that?

Well, it appears that there are not a few on this board who apparently don't want that.

Why do you suppose that is?

Do you suppose it is because they don't trust me?

Well...it is likely that they will offer that as an excuse (if they haven't already--i.e. Runtu). But, even were I to point them to authoritative resources, it is unlikely that they would take me up on it. So, in truth, it isn't about trust.

Rather, for some (if not most) I suspect it may have much more to do with near paranoia of thinking themselves WRONG again. A lot of negative emotion and energy has been expended, and it would be disheartening to see it all turn out for not--or worse yet, to find that it was seriously misdirected. They would just as soon continue swirling themselves and others deeper into negativity and socio-emotional debt and supposedly save face, than effectively heal themselves and stop the cycle of hurt and anger and loss. In other words, they will continue driving around with an emotional flat tire and risking significant damage to their own socio-psychological vehicle as well as other vehicles, because their egos won't let them believe the constant thumping isn't, as they suppose, a Mormon rock in their tread. It is the epitomy of dysfunction.

...and then there are the very well intended, but unwitting enablers (truth dancer and liz take a bow).

Here is the deal. I can offer you a proven way out of the dysfunction. But, if you are unwilling to take it, and choose instead to foment the hurt and anger and hatred and loss to yourselves and other (in other words, if you don't take hold of the life ring, but continue to flail away in the cesspool of self-pity, false victimizaton, gossip, profanation, mockery, mud-slinging, etc.), then action will need to be taken to protect others from your dysfunction and "sickness". You have been somewhat quarantined here and at MTT and RFM. But the world will also need to be warned against the infectuous desease of bigotry that is endemic at these locations. The choice is yours.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

For me it is about trust. I've known you a long time, Wade, and I have good reason not to trust you. Trust has to be earned, and you haven't earned it.

You asked me before if I was willing to explore the rationality of my beliefs and feelings. I said I am. You have now asked a second time. Heal me from the dysfunction, Wade. Please.

As for the idea that it would be painful to be proven wrong, I could not disagree more. There's simply no downside for me in finding out that the church is true (well, other than I'd have to start paying tithing again). The tension in my marriage would all but disappear. My 14 year old would stop saying that her "real dad" is dead. I would love to be proven wrong, Wade. I really would.

[_Mister Scratch]

I asked earlier:

But, the issue really goes beyond that, doesn't it? It is not just a matter of acknowledging that people see things differently. Rather, it is a matter of determining, in everyone's best interest, what is valid and appropriate or not, and what works and what doesn't. From my perspective, the folks at RFM are, through cognitive distortions, unnecessarily creating their own pain and suffering and anger and loss, and the manner in which they are mis-directing their venting and grieving adds to, and unnecessarily prolongs, the cyle of pain and suffering and anger and loss for themselves as well as for others. What I am proposing is a proven method for RFMers and others like them to stop their own pain and suffering and anger and loss, and keep them from causing undue pain and suffering and anger and loss to others. Who wouldn't want that?

Well, it appears that there are not a few on this board who apparently don't want that.

Why do you suppose that is?

Do you suppose it is because they don't trust me?

Well...it is likely that they will offer that as an excuse (if they haven't already--i.e. Runtu). But, even were I to point them to authoritative resources, it is unlikely that they would take me up on it. So, in truth, it isn't about trust.

Rather, for some (if not most) I suspect it may have much more to do with near paranoia of thinking themselves WRONG again. A lot of negative emotion and energy has been expended, and it would be disheartening to see it all turn out for not--or worse yet, to find that it was seriously misdirected. They would just as soon continue swirling themselves and others deeper into negativity and socio-emotional debt and supposedly save face, than effectively heal themselves and stop the cycle of hurt and anger and loss. In other words, they will continue driving around with an emotional flat tire and risking significant damage to their own socio-psychological vehicle as well as other vehicles, because their egos won't let them believe the constant thumping isn't, as they suppose, a Mormon rock in their tread. It is the epitomy of dysfunction.

...and then there are the very well intended, but unwitting enablers (truth dancer and liz take a bow).

Here is the deal. I can offer you a proven way out of the dysfunction. But, if you are unwilling to take it, and choose instead to foment the hurt and anger and hatred and loss to yourselves and other (in other words, if you don't take hold of the life ring, but continue to flail away in the cesspool of self-pity, false victimizaton, gossip, profanation, mockery, mud-slinging, etc.), then action will need to be taken to protect others from your dysfunction and "sickness". You have been somewhat quarantined here and at MTT and RFM. But the world will also need to be warned against the infectuous desease of bigotry that is endemic at these locations. The choice is yours.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

This is bull, Wade, since part of the problem is the Church itself, and its rigidity. The experts juliann cites so often are in full agreement on this. Until you acknowledge this, I hardly see how you can be "trusted."