Rollo Tomasi wrote:I noted above that the violence in both was similar. Besides, cutting one's throat (whether in an LDS or non-LDS context) usually is "from ear to ear" -- the same method was used in the movie "Braveheart," but I doubt Mel Gibson based his portrayal on the endowment penalties. ;)
Maybe he based it on the masonic penalties. ;)
I've also heard that the reason Utah is one of the last states to use the firing squad for the death penalty is because it allows for the blood of the person to actually spill out onto the ground - thus accomplishing the requirements of blood atonement.
Pahoran wrote:I could say more, but I won't. Believing Latter-day Saints do not profane the Temple by discussing sacred matters in such an environment; and persons of good character, if such there be, will neither exploit that fact nor attempt to draw invidious conclusions therefrom.Pahoran
Rollo Tomasi wrote:There are many stories of blood atonement murders. Here is one from John D. Lee:
Be more discriminating. How could Lee have possibly had first-hand information? This didn't appear until after Lee's death.
This section of his confessions was probably provided by J.H Beadle to William W. Bishop.
P
OK. I'll be more discriminating. I linked to Jerald and Sandra Tanner's site. How's that for discrimination? All good Mormons discriminate against the Tanners, right?
Rollo Tomasi wrote:There are many stories of blood atonement murders. Here is one from John D. Lee:
Be more discriminating. How could Lee have possibly had first-hand information? This didn't appear until after Lee's death.
This section of his confessions was probably provided by J.H Beadle to William W. Bishop.
P
OK. I'll be more discriminating. I linked to Jerald and Sandra Tanner's site. How's that for discrimination? All good Mormons discriminate against the Tanners, right?
I repeat my statement. How could JD Lee possibly know the facts? Don't cite me somewhere else; how could Lee know these things? Your link to the UofMissouri site merely relies on Lee. Do you even know what it means to be discriminating with your sources? Your misuse of the word "discrimination" in that context seems to suggest that you don't.
Plutarch wrote:Be more discriminating. How could Lee have possibly had first-hand information? This didn't appear until after Lee's death.
I used Lee's story because the BYU Church History professor backed it up.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
Who Knows wrote:I've also heard that the reason Utah is one of the last states to use the firing squad for the death penalty is because it allows for the blood of the person to actually spill out onto the ground - thus accomplishing the requirements of blood atonement.
But I'm sure that's just coincidence...
You are probably correct. I recall that an ex'ed LDS member (an RM and still a believer, but ex'ed due to his crimes) on Utah's death row (I think it was child killer Arthur Bishop, but I'm not sure) wrote a letter to GBH asking whether he should choose firing squad (which would spill his blood) instead of hanging or lethal injection (which wouldn't spill his blood) in order to take advantage of the blood atonement doctrine. GBH responded that it made no difference, and that the Church did not take the position that one had to actually "spill blood" for purposes of atonement.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
Plutarch wrote:Be more discriminating. How could Lee have possibly had first-hand information? This didn't appear until after Lee's death.
I used Lee's story because the BYU Church History professor backed it up.
Lee was not a witness. Lee never lived anywhere near these events. I don't care what some BYU Church history professor thinks. Lee's confessions were fabricated.
Plutarch wrote:I repeat my statement. How could JD Lee possibly know the facts? Don't cite me somewhere else; how could Lee know these things?
The execution took place in October 1857 (just one month after the MMM) in Cedar City, not far from Lee's home in Harmony. Regardless of whether Lee is an accurate source, 100 years after the deed BYU prof Gustive Larsen seemed pretty convinced the execution occurred (see my quote in a post above).
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"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
Plutarch wrote:Lee was not a witness. Lee never lived anywhere near these events. I don't care what some BYU Church history professor thinks. Lee's confessions were fabricated.
How do you disregard Gustive Larsen's statement that "reputable eyewitnesses" confirmed that the incident happened?
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)