Mystery Quote

[_Runtu]

Any guesses as to who said the following?

When the Spirit speaks to you, you know it. Although others may dismiss
the Spirit as "feelings," those who have received a witness of the truth
know the difference. I don't share why I know (and yes, I do know) the
gospel is true because I can't find words adequate to define or describe
why I know, and to do so would cheapen the witness. And besides, there
are plenty of critics who would mock and denigrate a sacred experience
(you know, casting pearls before swine).

So, yes, I will be "evasive" about this because I cannot really explain
how the Spirit and revelation work in my life. I don't begrudge people's
saying they know, because I know.

[_Mister Scratch]

Any guesses as to who said the following?

When the Spirit speaks to you, you know it. Although others may dismiss
the Spirit as "feelings," those who have received a witness of the truth
know the difference. I don't share why I know (and yes, I do know) the
gospel is true because I can't find words adequate to define or describe
why I know, and to do so would cheapen the witness. And besides, there
are plenty of critics who would mock and denigrate a sacred experience
(you know, casting pearls before swine).

So, yes, I will be "evasive" about this because I cannot really explain
how the Spirit and revelation work in my life. I don't begrudge people's
saying they know, because I know.

Ummm.... You? ; )

[_Runtu]

Any guesses as to who said the following?

When the Spirit speaks to you, you know it. Although others may dismiss
the Spirit as "feelings," those who have received a witness of the truth
know the difference. I don't share why I know (and yes, I do know) the
gospel is true because I can't find words adequate to define or describe
why I know, and to do so would cheapen the witness. And besides, there
are plenty of critics who would mock and denigrate a sacred experience
(you know, casting pearls before swine).

So, yes, I will be "evasive" about this because I cannot really explain
how the Spirit and revelation work in my life. I don't begrudge people's
saying they know, because I know.

Ummm.... You? ; )

Yep, I wrote that on alt.religion.Mormon March 12, 1998. I sound like a cross between Gazelam and Wade Englund.

[_Who Knows]

I don't share why I know (and yes, I do know) the
gospel is true because I can't find words adequate to define or describe
why I know, and to do so would cheapen the witness. And besides, there
are plenty of critics who would mock and denigrate a sacred experience
(you know, casting pearls before swine).

Care to share 'why' now?

[_Runtu]

I don't share why I know (and yes, I do know) the
gospel is true because I can't find words adequate to define or describe
why I know, and to do so would cheapen the witness. And besides, there
are plenty of critics who would mock and denigrate a sacred experience
(you know, casting pearls before swine).

Care to share 'why' now?

I think I've already talked about my temple experience, wherein I felt some kind of force go through my body.

In other words, "feelings."

[_gramps]

Well, Runtu, you already gave it away. Now it's no fun.

Mr. Scratch is smarter than me, I guess. I was going to guess GAZ or any number of posters I have come across on the old FAIR(?) board.

Funny, that was me, too, but just 20 years ago. That is why it is so fun to read GAZ's stuff. It's like traveling back through time. Kind of fun after a few beers (or whatever one chooses for such time travel enjoyment.)



Nice to meet you the other day. All the best.

[_MormonMendacity]

Ummm.... You? ; )

You could have at least given us goofballs a chance!

Wow. Sounds like me, too. I "know".

I remember reading a book by an LDS author back in the early 90s (the name's escaping me right now) where he essentially said that when Mormons say "I know this church is true" that we really don't know it's true; we just mean we believe it's true.

I remember being outraged! What kind of a testimony did this guy have? How dare he say we don't "know"!

I used to describe my "knowledge" as this special sense -- a sixth sense -- that you had to develop, like walking, talking, singing, reading, etc. Only Latter-Day Saints really developed this ability to know. We used "the Spirit" and when you knew...well...you knew!

Now I give myself a perfect 10 in mental gymnastics!

[_Runtu]

Well, Runtu, you already gave it away. Now it's no fun.

Mr. Scratch is smarter than me, I guess. I was going to guess GAZ or any number of posters I have come across on the old FAIR(?) board.

Funny, that was me, too, but just 20 years ago. That is why it is so fun to read GAZ's stuff. It's like traveling back through time. Kind of fun after a few beers (or whatever one chooses for such time travel enjoyment.)

Nice to meet you the other day. All the best.

About the only difference between the apologist me and Gaz is that I didn't quote scripture. That's what I find fascinating. I hear people saying almost verbatim what I used to say. In fact, I once pointed that out to a TBM, and they accused me of making fun of them.

The hard thing for most of the Gazes of the world to understand is that we used to be exactly like them.

[_Ray A]

Yep, I wrote that on alt.religion.Mormon March 12, 1998. I sound like a cross between Gazelam and Wade Englund.

Change happens. Reading The Christ Conspiracy and going back to reading more of G.A Wells has left me feeling that Jesus never even existed. Yet I still believe in "revelation" (inspiration, intuition, synchronicity), that there is purpose to life, and that for many Mormonism is a part of that purpose. The feelings you had were genuine, they were not your imagination, and it's what you needed at the time. I don't mock belief, because I believe it plays an important role in people's lives. Who is to say God does not work through Mormonism, with all the faults and problems? These are stages of progress, and when we reach a certain stage and feel that the church has reached its use by date for us, we move on. There's no need to deny those feelings (I don't know if you are, but don't think so), because they were part of your journey, and were real. This is why Mormons continue to believe, not because it's logical, but because of spiritual experiences, and this is why it's nearly impossible to "deconvert" them through argumentation. I don't deny any of my Mormon experience, but I am in constant change as far as my thought processes are concerned. The Book of Mormon was the most powerful experience I had in Mormonism, and even though I don't believe its historical, this did not alter how I felt. You were right, words are inadequate to describe feelings like this, and they can't be straight-jacketed nor easily analysed. I would suggest that many of the "liberal Mormons" who post here continue to believe because of their intuition, feelings, and revelation to them. It's not something you can reduce to pure logic.

[_gramps]

I hope you didn't use to post that terrible artwork, as well.

Hey, MM: I had a missionary in my zone from Australia (we were in England) who use to say to every person we met at the door: "We believe we know that the church is....."

I use to think, what a wuss. Just say it. We know it. Let the chips fall where they may. If they can't handle that, then they aren't ready.

I need another beer. This is bringing back lots of crazy memories.

As Ray points out correctly: Things change.