Full Disclosure?

Post by **_Bond...James Bond** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:00 pm

Would any religion be able to attract converts if they gave full disclosure to investigators?

Bond

Post by **_truth dancer** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:06 pm

Hi James, good question.

I think, if a religion didn't claim to be directed by Jesus Christ/God (or any other ultimate spiritual authority) "himself", or to be the one and only true church upon the earth, then yes it could handle a not so glimmering past. If a religion presented itself as a group of people doing their best to find truth and live according to the goodness that exists there is room for mistakes and difficulties so long as they are recognized, apologized for, and overcome.

The problem is when one religion (whichever one it is) claims to be the exclusive vehicle for the power and authority of God. It gets even more complicated when the mistakes are not admitted to but considered God's will, ignored, justified, rationalized, and minimized.

:-)

~dancer~

Post by **_Bond...James Bond** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:05 am

truth dancer wrote:Hi James, good question.
I think, if a religion didn't claim to be directed by Jesus Christ/God (or any other ultimate spiritual authority) "himself", or to be the one and only true church upon the earth, then yes it could handle a not so glimmering past.

I guess its a catch-22 though considering that every religion has to make some claim at being the only true religion. By making that claim, they have to somehow become more perfect. I think its an ego trip they go on in order to lie to themselves about the purity of their beliefs.

If a religion presented itself as a group of people doing their best to find truth and live according to the goodness that exists there is room for mistakes and difficulties so long as they are recognized, apologized for, and overcome.

Religion can't do this!!! If they did they would be admitting to be less than perfect. Actually I would have alot more respect for organized religions if they would apologize for past things. An admission that "yeah our forfathers screwed up, but we apologize today for their actions..." would go a long way towards giving religion in general something of a leg to stand on.

In all reality the best people for "living according to goodness" are pure social charities rather than religion because you get the social service without the guilt trip. Religious bodies will usually give you social care too, but all to often you get an ear chewing about that religions particular belief system.

Bond

Post by **_Runtu** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:08 am

truth dancer wrote:The problem is when one religion (whichever one it is) claims to be the exclusive vehicle for the power and authority of God. It gets even more complicated when the mistakes are not admitted to but considered God's will, ignored, justified, rationalized, and minimized.

:-)

~dancer~

I don't know any religions who act like that. Do you? ;-)

In answer to Bond's question, I think if all religions gave full disclosure, people would probably still join religions but have different expectations of what the religions were and how they operated. I think they'd recognize the limits of a manmade organization, whereas now a lot of people are disappointed when God's kingdom behaves badly.

Post by **_Bond...James Bond** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:31 am

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So I do give the Catholic Church alot of credit for doing this. John Paul also apologized at the Wailing Wall for Catholic antisemitism through the ages. So not all religious leaders are complete hypocrites. Now if the rest would get their acts together.

Bond

Post by **_Jason Bourne** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:03 am

truth dancer wrote:Hi James, good question.

I think, if a religion didn't claim to be directed by Jesus Christ/God (or any other ultimate spiritual authority) "himself", or to be the one and only true church upon the earth, then yes it could handle a not so glimmering past. If a religion presented itself as a group of people doing their best to find truth and live according to the goodness that exists there is room for mistakes and difficulties so long as they are recognized, apologized for, and overcome.

The problem is when one religion (whichever one it is) claims to be the exclusive vehicle for the power and authority of God. It gets even more complicated when the mistakes are not admitted to but considered God's will, ignored, justified, rationalized, and minimized.

:-)

~dancer~

Are there any religions like this? Most I know of think they are THE ONEs that have THE TRUTH.

Post by **_truth dancer** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:05 pm

Hi Jason,

I don't know if there are religions who do not claim to be the one and only true one. Probably the Universalists Unitarians and the Quakers come closest. Then there is Buddhism and Vedanta which are not really religions but teachings along the same lines...

I actually wrote about the idea of a new religion in my blog today... http://goodnessgraciousness.blogspot.com

I would love to be a part of a movement, religious or otherwise that lets go of the dogma and nonsense and focuses on healing the world, bringing peace to our planet, taking care of each other, and moving the world toward something better.

It seems to me this often gets lost ... ya know?

~dancer~

Post by **_truth dancer** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:11 pm

Hi Bond,

Religion can't do this!!! If they did they would be admitting to be less than perfect.

This is the problem... as long as a church claims to be directed by God/Christ/Allah/whomever, then there are fairly high expectations. I mean what sort of Creator would direct Joshua? Or the 9-11 bombers? Or tell a man to kill his son? Or sleep with multiple women? I mean really?

BUT.... if a religion let go of that whole notion and went with the idea that we are each doing our best to understand the mysteries, there is room for mistakes. We could learn from them, apologize for them, let them go as we embrace a more holy way of existing. Until then religions are left with rationalizing their past, making the horrible sound holy, making the unthinkable sound sacred.

It is nonsense!

~dancer~

Post by **_Bond...James Bond** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:22 pm

truth dancer wrote: I would love to be a part of a movement, religious or otherwise that lets go of the dogma and nonsense and focuses on healing the world, bringing peace to our planet, taking care of each other, and moving the world toward something better.

It seems to me this often gets lost ... ya know?

~dancer~

Hey TD,

You should hear my spiritual philosophy. I call it Double-0 Deism. It's a religion of one. Me. We hold no services. Life's enough of a service. There's no scripture and no dogma beyond three rules:

1)Treat People The Way You'd Like To Be Treated
2)Be charitable to others and to the Earth
3)Have Fun in Life

That's it. No rules except the ones you make for yourself. No guilt trips except any you feel you deserve. Equality for all races, genders, and creeds. Join the movement, it don't cost a cent.

Bond

Post by **_truth dancer** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:29 pm

Ooooohhhh James I think you are on to something!

I would have to add one more idea: Take care of each other and the earth. Something along those lines.

I'm thinking if we don't start realizing we are a part of the earth we won't have a earth on which to exist. :-(

But yeah, I'll join your movement ... I particularly like the idea that you don't require any funds. THAT IS COOL!!! :-)

~dancer~