LDS Church: Sexist?

[_Polygamy Porter]

PP is rather blighted in what the YW really go through at least now.

Young Women's program that the LDS church FORCES all teen females through is designed to do one thing and one thing only.

Encourage post high school education? No. Unless you are headed to BYU for your "MRS" degree.

Both of my daughters were encouraged to go and did go to college. One is working on her masters and my pursue a PHD. Both attended BYU and were both told that girls are not at BYU to get married by the BYU people. They were encouraged at BYU to pursue whatever worthy goals they had.

May I ask if the one pursuing the masters is married? All of the women that I knew in my past wards that pursued education and careers were socially ostracized after a few years and branded as being selfish. Comments like "Still looking for that righteous man?" were common.
The structure of the YW program creates this by the fact that most LDS girls are married before age 21. Those that do not get married by 21 stick out like a sore thumb.

Encourage development of personal skills that do not relate to being a good Mormon wife? NO

Encourage personal career goals? HELL NO

I think you are stuck in a time warp

No, my ward is.. my wife confirmed this several months ago while helping out in YW one Sunday..

What does it do for the unwitting teens that are forced to attend?

Nothing. It provides fresh, ready to marry, young brides for the horny returned missionaries. RMs who have been told by their mission presidents that their next MISSION is to get married. Some tell them within six months, the more liberal ones tell them no more than a year.

Lies lies and more lies. MPs have not been telling MRs this for year. Mine never told us that and I was a misionary 27 years ago.

Really? All of the RMs I have know for the past 20 years have all had the same advice from their MPs.

One of the worst lessons that they teach was the chewing gum one.
- They hand out sticks of gum to all of the girls in the class. Being typical teens, the girls immediately start chomping on the free chewing gum.
- After a minute or so, the instructor passes a plate around the room and instructs the girls to deposit the gum into one big pile of spit covered gum.
- The plate is passed up to the instructor who then places a fresh stick of gum next to the disgusting pile of post masticated gum.

"IF you were a worthy priesthood-holding returned missionary male, which would you choose?" "SISTERS, Keep yourselves clean and worthy to be TAKEN to the holy temple of GOD by one of his faithful servants"

UN-f'cking-believable. Even if I were still a member, my daughters would NOT be forced through that kind of immoral mind control.

While this unfortnate and awful way of teaching has been used here and there I guess it was more common 30 years ago and rare. It certianly is rare today if ever. Personally I would have great issues with someone using this today.

Wow, glad to see a forward thinking Mormon. Coggy probably thinks it is a great lesson though..

Of course LDS is sexist. Women are not even allowed to be the f'cking financial or membership clerk for the damn ward. The highest position of authority in the ward is Relief Society Prez and she REPORTS to and under the bishop. He can tell her what to do and when to do it.

Women are told that they cannot make it to the stupid ass Celestial Kingdumb UNLESS they are married to a worthy male who is an ordained elder in the Mormon priesthood. Little do these unwitting barefoot and pregnant women realize, for their worthy preisthood man will be screwing other women in the C.K. a.k.a. POLYGAMY.

Really? Where are women told this. Call for references please.

LDS Apostle Erastus Snow preached the following on Sunday, Oct. 4, 1857:

Do the women, when they pray, remember their husbands?... Do you uphold your husband before God as your lord? "What!—my husband to be my lord?" I ask, Can you get into the celestial kingdom without him? Have any of you been there? You will remember that you never got into the celestial kingdom [during the temple ceremony] without the aid of your husband. If you did, it was because your husband was away, and some one had to act proxy for him. No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 291)

Right from the horses mouth, and still in publication today, Answers to Gospel Questions by Joseph Fielding Smith:

Question:

I have tried to be a good church member and have a strong testimony of the gospel, and the older I get the stronger is my faith. I am married to a non-member. We have three children…..My husband does not show the slightest interest in the church; in fact, he shows some resentment against it….I can live my life out this way, but what will happen to me and my children, who are faithful members in the resurrection?

Answer:

This is one of the saddest conditions that we are confronted with in the church. The Lord has revealed that the marriage covenant should be eternal….. In answer to this sister’s question we can say to her, and to the many others in like circumstances: If you remain faithful and true, the Lord will take your faith and devotion into account and reward you according to your works….It is a deplorable matter when a husband and wife are married for time only which according to the covenant they have taken must end at death, and then to have the wife wish and long for the blessings of husband and children in the eternity. When the wife if faithful and desires to obey the divine law and the husband is rebellious, or unwilling to obey the will of the Lord, if she maintains her integrity to the best of her ability, she will be given to another husband in eternity and will receive all the blessings of the celestial kingdom.

Now look idiot. Your rant belongs in another forum. I know with the low maturity level you have it is hard to restrain yourself to civil debate. Work at man.

Look in the mirror fool, who is wearing the funny underwear? You or I? You fool, therefore you are the idiot.[/quote]

[_Dr. Shades]

Is the LDS church sexist towards women?

in my opinion, the mere fact that the church heavily sponsors the Boy Scouts but not the Girl Scouts answers that question quite handily.

[_truth dancer]

Hey Jason,

I think you are presenting a picture that is not reality. ;-)

Things are certainly changing and yes I do hear of situations where young women are encouraged to get an education IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENS TO THEIR HUSBANDS. Education is great just don't get a job.

It was only, what a year or so ago, GBH said, something to the effect that "too many women are working... it is unfortunate." I have never, ever heard a case where a woman was encouraged to follow her dreams concerning a career. Never. Contrariwise, I have been told over and over again, the desire to work is of Satan; to work is to destroy the family, to work is to not follow the prophet.

I had a HP member in my ward a few months ago, tell me that by working I'm hurting my family. Of course he is not the church but certainly the idea of women working outside the home is one criticized by leaders and condemned by most believing members.

I understand that more and more women are working and not following the prophet. This has to do with women choosing what they feel is best for themselves and their families over what they hear from the leaders of the church.

~dancer~

[_Runtu]

Hey Jason,

I think you are presenting a picture that is not reality. ;-)

Things are certainly changing and yes I do hear of situations where young women are encouraged to get an education IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENS TO THEIR HUSBANDS. Education is great just don't get a job.

It was only, what a year or so ago, GBH said, something to the effect that "too many women are working... it is unfortunate." I have never, ever heard a case where a woman was encouraged to follow her dreams concerning a career. Never. Contrariwise, I have been told over and over again, the desire to work is of Satan; to work is to destroy the family, to work is to not follow the prophet.

I had a HP member in my ward a few months ago, tell me that by working I'm hurting my family. Of course he is not the church but certainly the idea of women working outside the home is one criticized by leaders and condemned by most believing members.

I understand that more and more women are working and not following the prophet. This has to do with women choosing what they feel is best for themselves and their families over what they hear from the leaders of the church.

~dancer~

Funny story from the COB. When I was working on the Aaronic Priesthood Manuals, the woman in the office next to mine was working on the Young Women manuals. There was some overlap, so we worked together. In the end, the powers that be accepted some of my changes, but not even one of hers. I asked her why she thought that was, and she looked at me incredulously and said, "It's because I don't have a penis." Later, when the galleys came back from the layout guy, we saw that her manual was done in Palatino, while mine was in Helvetica. I asked the layout guy why he did that. He said, "Helvetica is a more masculine font." Without skipping a beat, my colleague said, "Is that because it's a more 'erect' font?"

And to answer the initial question, of course it's a sexist religion. My daughter said about a year ago, "Dad, Heavenly Father must not like girls as much as he likes boys."

I asked her why she thought that. She said, "Because a boy can be whatever he wants, but a girl can't."

I said, "You can be whatever you want to be."

She said, "I can't be a bishop or any other priesthood leader."

Later, when I said this to my wife, she asked me why I didn't explain that girls didn't need the priesthood because they get to have babies.

[_Mister Scratch]

For a good summary of TBM females' feelings about their status in the Church, I recommend reading "Calmoriah and the Small Beginnings of Apostasy" on my blog. (It's part of the FAIR Hall of Fame). She was basically shouted down by the men on the thread for advocating, among other things, a separate, female only ward.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Is the LDS church sexist towards women?

In theory, no; however, in practice, yes. I don't think there is any intention to be sexist, but human nature being what it is, any time only one gender has the priesthood and administrative control (as men do in the Church), sexism will be inevitable, in my opinion. I think it has gotten better with time, but there's still a very long way to go.

What is a woman's role in the church?

The Proclamation is clear that a woman's role in general is motherhood and the nurture of children. In contrast, a man's role is fatherhood and to preside in the family (i.e., via the priesthood) and "provide the necessities of life and protection" (i.e., go out and work for a living). Because the Church is such an integral part of a member's life, and can be very structured, a man will have a more obvious role in how it is run and what decisions are made. I, too, wish that women held the priesthood and had more administrative power in the Church. But I don't see that happening any time soon, but one can dream ....

[_Gazelam]

Paul taught: Man "is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. ....
Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God." (1 Cor. 11:7-12.)

In the true Patriarchal Order man holds the priesthood and is the head of the household of faith, but he cannot attain a fulness of joy here or of eternal reward hereafter alone. Woman stands at his side a joint-inheritor with him in the fulness of all things. Exaltation and Eternal increase is her lot as well as his. (D&C 131:1-4.) Godhood is not for men only; it is for men and women together. (D&C 132:19-20)

(Mormon Doctrine, p.844.)

Gaz

[_Dr. Shades]

There's a VERY interesting experience posted to RFM by a guy who was mistaken for a woman first on a computer-related BB and later on a Mormonism-related BB.

It's a fascinating glimpse into a world I never thought existed. To all the ladies reading this, will you please click on this link and tell me if this is really what it's like for women on the Internet?

I really want to know if anyone else has experienced anything like this or if it is--gasp--the norm for my female friends.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Gaz...

Paul taught: Man "is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. ....

Yeah... the idea of God creating women for the pleasure of man is SICK, DEGRADING, and PERVERTED! It has also caused more harm and sorrow than pretty much any teaching in history. It has taken five thousand years for humankind to begin to treat women as human beings... valuable to existence regardless of the pleasure they bring to men. :-( Lets move forward into some sort of healthy understanding of relationships and women shall we?

Paul taught his opinion just like all the others who wrote as if they were in personal communication with God. He shared his opinion based on the hurtful and archaic teachings of the time.

Let's be real... male and female creatures have been around for what THREE HUNDRED MILLION years (since the origin of sexual organs in reptiles)! God didn't just suddenly create a man, decide Adam needed some pleasure so conjured up a female. My gosh Gaz... (sigh)!

~dancer~

(Actually I blogged about this very topic this morning... if you want to read more about the history of sex see my stie: The http://theartofintimacy.blogspot.com :-)

[_Gazelam]

Why do you choose to highlight the first part of my post and not the second?

Since when is the relationship between men and women solely sexual based? What is the old saying? Behind every great man is a great woman? I think that sums it up.

And stop with the "Man came from bacteria" garbage, to reject creation is to reject Chist and your full potential.

Gaz