God Having Sex with Mary

[_gramps]

Golly gee, Gaz. Now it's all clear, at least to me.

Thanks a lot.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Gaz,

I'm assuming you are aware of all the other "God had sex with a virgin" myths that preceeded the Jesus Christ and Mary one. Soooo...

Are the other God/virgin stories true because they were written down and believed, or only the one that you enjoy... the latest one upon which many believe was based on all the previous stories of the God/Virgin conception?

Is Jesus the only REAL half man/half God person or were all the other half man/half God folks also real?

The problem with the idea that God is a man, had sex with Mary, and created a half/man half/God person is that this assumes God is a rather primitive primate, like current humans. Gone is the mytery, majesty, grand, omnipotent, omnipresent divine essense, replaced with a human male with sexual needs, drives, desires.

I'm guessing for those men who hold to the idea of being a God, with all the power and authority of the universe, this is great! But it certainly reduces the concept of God to that of a homo sapien from the 19th century. (Suggesting in the last few hundred years we have certainly learned a LOT about procreation, DNA, biology, neurology, evolution, etc. etc. etc.).

Also, significant, is the fact that this whole half God/half man idea was not taught by Jesus but was an invention of folks a few hundred years later, 365 AD If I recall correctly... at the council of Nicea, specifically to embrace (replace) the pagan myths of the half/God, half/man savior.

~dancer~

[_desert_vulture]

By the power of the Holy Ghost Mary dwelt for a time in the presence of the Father, and bore the Savior of the world after the manner of the flesh. through a mortal Mother the Savior inherited the death that came from the fall, and through an immortal Father Christ could choose when he died, and had the ability to take up his life again by way of ressurection.

Gaz, I know it must seem appropriate for you to come in and quote a few scriptures, summarize them with a vague paragraph, and then leave. But I have to say that when there are such serious doctrines taught in the LDS church, and you casually breeze over them, as if the person who was once revered by the entire church as the living mouthpiece and prophet upon the entire face of the earth is now irrelevant, you betray your simple-minded approach to tough issues that face most of us as members of the church.

Do you even see the internal contradiction in God coming down to have sex with a pure vessel? Does that thought conjure up some weird cosmic denial? Or is it ok that Brigham Young, the polygamist prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for approximately 33 years (give or take 1 or 2 years during the power vacuum after the martyrdom of Joseph Smith) said that God had sex with Mary? How is that ok by your standards? Do you even comprehend the issue here?

I understand that for those who claim to have perfect faith, there is no need to think for oneself. However, those of us who strive to have perfect faith with full knowledge understand that God created us with minds that function and logically analyze. It would be nice to know your thoughts on why you think God is entitled to have sex with a virgin daughter of his? It would also be nice to hear any TBM defend BY's ludicrous proposition that God descended from on high to have sex with a teenage daughter (pardon the obvious reference to Joseph Smith) to produce the Savior of all mankind.

Isn't it plausible that God was able to create an embryo for the Savior without sex? Hmmm, that would preserve Mary's chastity wouldn't it? Isn't it possible for women today to become pregnant, never having had sex, through artificial insemination? If man is so capable, then wouldn't God be able to do it too, without sex? I think Brigham was taking too many of his cues about God from watching Joseph Smith. I think God is above sexual reproduction, I mean, come on. Gaz, if you don't want to engage in this discussion, I understand.

[_truth dancer]

Just for fun I thought I would share my thoughts about this topic as a believer...

First, if Mary had sex with God, then they must have been sealed... but when would that have taken place? If somehow the ceremony happened right before the conception, then Mary would have had to have been baptized and had her endowment. But wait, the church had not been established yet. So, who would have baptized her and where would she have gotten all the appropriate clothing? Who would have known all the keywords, handshakes, and tokens?

I suppose one could go with the idea of angels coming down but if they can intevene in this way, why is it even necessary for all the "work" to be done on earth? If a celestialized person can have sex with a human primate, can it happen more than with Mary and God? Are all the other stories of angels having sex with human women as found in the Old Testament true? Where are the angels today? Ya know?

Sigh.... it just didn't make any sort of sense.

~dancer~

[_ozemc]

Hi Gaz,

I'm assuming you are aware of all the other "God had sex with a virgin" myths that preceeded the Jesus Christ and Mary one. Soooo...

Are the other God/virgin stories true because they were written down and believed, or only the one that you enjoy... the latest one upon which many believe was based on all the previous stories of the God/Virgin conception?

Is Jesus the only REAL half man/half God person or were all the other half man/half God folks also real?

The problem with the idea that God is a man, had sex with Mary, and created a half/man half/God person is that this assumes God is a rather primitive primate, like current humans. Gone is the mytery, majesty, grand, omnipotent, omnipresent divine essense, replaced with a human male with sexual needs, drives, desires.

I'm guessing for those men who hold to the idea of being a God, with all the power and authority of the universe, this is great! But it certainly reduces the concept of God to that of a homo sapien from the 19th century. (Suggesting in the last few hundred years we have certainly learned a LOT about procreation, DNA, biology, neurology, evolution, etc. etc. etc.).

Also, significant, is the fact that this whole half God/half man idea was not taught by Jesus but was an invention of folks a few hundred years later, 365 AD If I recall correctly... at the council of Nicea, specifically to embrace (replace) the pagan myths of the half/God, half/man savior.

~dancer~

Interesting stuff.

Here is a copy of a post I made on another website:

You know, the past couple of days as I’ve been walking around the lake during lunch, I’ve postulated the theory that Jesus Christ was really an alien DNA experiment, and that the whole premise of the human race is that we are a long-running genetic experiment being conducted by a very old (by our reckoning) race of people. Maybe they have been evolving for 500 billion years, and they live for 500,000 years. Let’s say they are a very peaceful, giving people.

They started this experiment say, 20 or 30 thousand years ago, and have been making repeated visits to our planet to infuse us with some sort of gene-splicing material. That’s why there were so many different people, from early ape-man, through Neanderthal to Cro-Magnon to modern Homo sapiens. Each jump in the evolutionary tree was another genetic test.

At one point, they decided to go with one race, let’s just say the Jews, maybe because they were the most cohesive, since they don’t intermingle much with other races. All the accounts you read about in the Old Testament are just the scientists trying to make sure that their control group doesn’t get destroyed.

Let’s say these alien people have evolved to the point where they can communicate through telepathy, and manipulate the elements around them using their minds. Let’s say you’re a shepherd named Moses in ancient Egypt, and you “hear” a voice telling you to do God’s will. Maybe this voice tells you his name is “Yahweh” (which could be the actual name of the lead scientist, for example), and you must do things for him and protect your people. When really what “Yahweh” wants to do is protect his experiment, and continue to get “funding” for it! It goes on and on through the years.

They tried to accelerate the process too much by making Mary pregnant with Jesus. They impregnated her with half the DNA from one of their own. That’s why Jesus was able to do all those things. He grew up knowing he was somehow different than the rest of the kids (as he would be if his DNA was half-alien), and at some point in his life, he got a “calling” to go out by himself. (Once again, “Yahweh” communicating into his mind)

Maybe at that point, this race revealed themselves to him, and showed him some of the marvelous things he could do, being half-them. They show him how to help his fellow man, since they were a benevolent people, and thought they were doing all this to help us move closer along the evolutionary ladder toward them. He was able to know what people were thinking, when power went out of him, make food miraculously appear, heal sick people, etc. All because he was half-alien, from a 500 billion year old race. But, all that he did was not understood; he was far too advanced for the people of that time, and so he was killed.

Maybe he didn’t really die, or die as we know it, but on a cellular level went into some sort of hibernation until his body could regenerate. At that time, maybe the results of his regeneration were that he became more like the race of aliens from ??? (maybe Alpha Centauri, it’s the closest star), and they couldn’t allow him to stay or it would blow the experiment. He was physically taken from the planet.

That’s why, in the 1st book of Acts, you read of him “ 9After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

Those two were other members of the scientific expedition making sure that the illusion was maintained.

Maybe they will be back in another 1000 years or so. That’s not so long to a race that lives 500,000 years. Maybe they’ll return, with Christ, since he is now a lot like them, when they think we’re ready to accept the idea that we’re not alone.


Someone did point out that this was in a book from some years back from a professor in Bosnia-Croatia:

Kuda ides covjece? - Where are you going, Human?

Written by the Bosnian-Croation physik professor Filip Curlukic in 1990.

Topic: Alien races manipulating Human DNA to create the perfect Human.

Yahweh - the name of the CEO of the intergalactic institution.

Way of comunication: Telepathy.

I haven't read the book, but it does sound fascinating.

You just never know ....

[_MormonMendacity]

I'm assuming you are aware of all the other "God had sex with a virgin" myths that preceeded the Jesus Christ and Mary one. Soooo...

Are the other God/virgin stories true because they were written down and believed, or only the one that you enjoy... the latest one upon which many believe was based on all the previous stories of the God/Virgin conception?

Is Jesus the only REAL half man/half God person or were all the other half man/half God folks also real?

What's surpising to me is that so few religious people DO know this! They actually think that this notion of a man-god is unique to Christianity. That this half-man/half-god was "necessary" to make him able to die so he could satisfy some bizarre eternal law of justice.

Watch how fast Gaz dismisses the fact that god-men predate Jesus...

The problem with the idea that God is a man, had sex with Mary, and created a half/man half/God person is that this assumes God is a rather primitive primate, like current humans. Gone is the mytery, majesty, grand, omnipotent, omnipresent divine essense, replaced with a human male with sexual needs, drives, desires.

You know the thinking (MY thinking when I was TBM) never goes into the details, i.e. what it means. The sex act has elements that are unnecessary for procreation, as you so well point out. What it also points out is how ignorant humans are without serious scientific training. To Brigham "...it just makes sense."

I'm guessing for those men who hold to the idea of being a God, with all the power and authority of the universe, this is great! But it certainly reduces the concept of God to that of a homo sapien from the 19th century. (Suggesting in the last few hundred years we have certainly learned a LOT about procreation, DNA, biology, neurology, evolution, etc. etc. etc.).

Also, significant, is the fact that this whole half God/half man idea was not taught by Jesus but was an invention of folks a few hundred years later, 365 AD If I recall correctly... at the council of Nicea, specifically to embrace (replace) the pagan myths of the half/God, half/man savior.

~dancer~

But as I'm sure you know...your reasoning will have little impact on people who hold the fundamental position as one of faith. They can get a couple of the details wrong but be quite content that -- overall -- they know it's true.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Oz...

OK, that was COOL! It makes a lot more sense than the myths our world has embraced for the last five thousand years! :-)

About a year or so ago, I attended a lecture from a man who was REALLY into the whole alien idea. His belief was powerful and his presentation quite compelling actually. He and those with whom he associates were completely convinced (and had lots of "evidence") to suggest that there was indeed more evolved forms of intelligent life interacting with humans on our planet for their own purposes and much of the myths humans have adopted are reflections of this. I found it fascinating actually.

It spoke of the way the human mind works, how we have this compelling need to create answers (even if they are in the magical realm) to explain the unknowable or unexplainable.

I think any of us could come up with any sort of fantasy theory and present it as real and inspired and of course no one could prove us wrong, so it must be true. Oppss... I mean it would be of Satan. ;-)

:-)

~dancer~

[_ozemc]

Hi Oz...

OK, that was COOL! It makes a lot more sense than the myths our world has embraced for the last five thousand years! :-)

About a year or so ago, I attended a lecture from a man who was REALLY into the whole alien idea. His belief was powerful and his presentation quite compelling actually. He and those with whom he associates were completely convinced (and had lots of "evidence") to suggest that there was indeed more evolved forms of intelligent life interacting with humans on our planet for their own purposes and much of the myths humans have adopted are reflections of this. I found it fascinating actually.

It spoke of the way the human mind works, how we have this compelling need to create answers (even if they are in the magical realm) to explain the unknowable or unexplainable.

I think any of us could come up with any sort of fantasy theory and present it as real and inspired and of course no one could prove us wrong, so it must be true. Oppss... I mean it would be of Satan. ;-)

:-)

~dancer~

Thanks. To me, it makes as much sense as anything else.

I guess I have worked to try and explain things to myself naturally instead of supernaturally. I mean, if God really did create all this, it would only make sense to me that He would use the forces that He set in motion to work it out. Why would He create it all to work one way, and then have to use something out of the natural to make it work another way? Why wouldn't He create it the supernatural way in the first place? Did He change His mind? I thought that God would know all from beginning to end.

I was reading the December issue of National Geographic, and there was a small article where scientists have found 5 stars within 50 light-years which theoretically are capable of supporting a rocky planet like earth.

Now, the way I look at it, if that's within 50 light-years, what about 75, 100, 150, or even 500 light-years away? And how big is the universe anyway?

The idea that we are alone, AND are the top of human evolution (or life evolution, if you must) is, to me, absurd.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Oz...

The idea that we are alone, AND are the top of human evolution (or life evolution, if you must) is, to me, absurd.

Well, certainly we are not the latest species to come along and there is MUCH more to come. I have no idea why some folks think the evolution of the entire universe magically stops with the human. That is nonsensical in my opinion! Certainly there are species who have been around much longer, have a much healthier community, and have abilities and sense we don't begin to experience.

I think the "real" story based on cosmology makes the most sense. Nothing magical... nothing supernatural... nothing to pretend.... no need to create some silly story to explain it all. Why can't folks just go with reality? Ya know? The real story, makes perfect sense, explains anything that needs explaining, fits with our experience of life.

At least the way I see it! (smile)

~dancer~

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

When I first heard that several Church prophets honestly believed that God came to earth and had sex with Mary, I was horrified.

And yet, this concept didn't seem to bother my husband at all.

Why is there such a different mindset on this among many TBM's?

Why would I be bothered by that if a prophet told me it was true? I might not understand but as a TBM I could accept anything if I truly believed it was from God.

Thinking was rarely required.

You mean to tell me that there is actual thinking going on with Mormons...I thought they followed....like lemmings


I am so confused now

Jesus ......Christ....the same or different
Now God is having sex with Mary....poor joseph.....when did he have sex ith his bride????

Do they worship Jesus..God...Joseph Smith...Brigham Young...Mary

I thought Jesus and mary magdeline had a child together???/
Oh that is a different religion I am talking about there.......