Roger Morrison wrote:
Brought up in a good blue-collar Canadian United Church home. UC is a gentle, accepting, non-dogmatic, non-intrusive place of worship. One didn't need to be a "Saint" to attend. Probably the first to accept Women equal to Men in all matters. Possibly because they recognized women as the ones who held homes together, attended Home-and-School, and were generally more compassionate than men. Mother was church soloist and attended when we didn't go 'camping'. Dad attended on Mothers' Day and Easter. I attended SS where the teacher talked more about Saturday night's hockey game to young hockey fans...i wasn't a HF...
I grew up in Quebec in the West Island. Catholics had their separate school board and Protestant and others had theirs, which I believe was called the Protestant School Board of Greater Montreal. I don't remember anyone expressing "wacky religious ideas" when I was growing up. Religion just didn't seem to be much an interest of anyone I knew, even the Catholic kids.
For all intents and purposes given my understanding of the United Church which was the main Protestant church in the area I lived, you essentially had almost an atheist type upbringing..no? Atheists could go to the United Church and not feel too out of place or that the service or beliefs were too weird.
My impression of Mormonism is that it is similar in absurdities and in requirement of time and devotion from members as the Jehovah Witnesses. That's my impression though I haven't spent nearly the time in looking into J.W's as I have into Mormonism.
I have a hard time fathoming how anyone who is brought up in an extremely liberal religious environment could get involved with Mormonism. I suspect your wife may have played a large roll in this.
From your question re 'church opportunities' i take it you are nonLDS? One of LDS glories, if not THE, is its laity involvement as 'leaders' of local congregations. (Also has its down-side:-) Also, children are given opportunities to speak publicly in church services from very early ages. A wonderful exposure to public speaking that usually serves the individual positively through out their lives. Joining a very small LDS Branch we were warmly fellowshipped and early 'called' to serve in various areas of responsibilities. Both my wife and i held every low echelon position up to Stake Presidency. In this respect LDSism must add more polish to an individual than any church that i am aware of. It validates like non other--those who take their membership seriously, and resonsibly. Generally speaking, one doesn't attend church, they participate in the church. Can be both +/-.
The type of experience you are talking about I believe my husband got from the Kinsmen. Wives also participanted in many of the activities for the community service as well as the many social functions. A wife could also join the Kinnettes. I do think my kids missed out on group activities in which they'd have opportunities for speaking to the group. That is one of the benefits I see the church providing. My daughter taught english in Japan for a year and 1/2 so she had a "missionary" type experience which I believe can be a benefit. My son 23 years though hasn't had any of these experiences and just the other day I was thinking of encouraging him to join the Kinsmen.
I agree, much easier. I am extremely empathetic towards those living in such states of anxiety. To stand as individuals under such circumstances they must be of the highest states of morality and integrity. My 'prayers' are with them. It is most unfortunate that such 'Spirits' are lost by the institution. Another LDS institutional/corporate weakness.
Yes I agree, the exmormons I've seen on the Net display extremely strong moral values. The church essentially shuns exmembers and that punishment serves as a "barrier to exit." For an individual to leave they often have to put up with much hardship ..in their work, social and family life.
previously I wrote: And there would be a sense of superiority, that one had better moral values than those who accepted society's liberal behaviors.
Possibly...but i think a feeling of "security" might be as appropriate. In general those who oppose "progress" do so out of fear.
In my readings on the Net of most religious people I interpret an attitude of moral superiority, that they are better people than those outside their religious group. And this is particularly the case with Mormons. I think this is intentional by the Mormon church. It is a selling feature they offer which by the way I believe is one reason you bought into it. The church markets itself as providing the best moral guidance system with which to raise a family. The church leadership itself which controls to a great extent the progress or direction of the church I'm sure are fearful of progress which might weaken or destroy them, but I don't believe the average person is. They are just following along with whatever the church says.
previously: I think the case is more a function that some folks willingly accept authority with little to no questioning.
Tends to a sense of security, placing ones' self in the hands of superiors who one trusts. Until there is an awakening and questions about their keeper.
The Mormon church promotes discouragement of critical thinking on its beliefs and encouragement acceptance of its authority. While all religious groups probably do so to some extent, the Mormon church is extreme. So I don't think the main reason members accept their religious authority so willingly is a function of wanting "security" I do think for most members this acceptance is more a function of effective indoctrination particularly for those born into the church.
previously: It might be due to their nature or their upbringing or a function of both. Those who wear garments it would seem to me are that type. It isn't a matter of really liking garments, it's a matter of acceptance of what they've been told without much critical thinking applied.
[/quote]Correct. But it must be understood that wearing Gs is the determinate of Celestial residency. A very strong insentive. [/quote]
Right, and effective indoctrination which has suppressed critical thinking in certain areas is why the church can promote such an absurd belief and have intelligent people actually believe it. The human brain's ability to compartmentalize irrational beliefs, is why otherwise extremely intelligent rational individuals willingly belief utter nonsense.
Marg, you are generally right in your last paragraph. I suggest in times past, in NA, it was much easier for the Top to influence and control the Bottom. Conditions and circumstances that enabled that have rapidly changed. A fact that LDS heiarchy doesn't seem to appreciate. As more 2nd generation LDS become better educated--critical thinkers--Mormonism will be influenced to the better, or become relic.
I think LDSism has too much 'invested' to watch themselves become 'bankrupt' so to speak. Within their 'holdings' they do have some good stuff that does serve to benefit their happy-folks.
I have little respect for the church. But don't have the time atm to elaborate.