Can a church be true?

[_Sam Harris]

When you think of true/false, how do you apply such a principle?

Is it applied to religious bodies?

Is it applied to structures?

Is a building true? A person?

How about ideas?

When I think about true/false, I always think of things that can be empirically proven. Hence, if you want to make a statement that a church is true based on its claims, can't you put those claims to the test? Outside of a person's testimony which you cannot disprove as that is based on the feelings and experiences of the person, can you prove a church to be true or false?

If the church is true, does that mean I really am the descendant of Cain?

If the church is true, does that really mean that unless everyone in the world becomes LDS, we can't achieve the highest heaven? (You won't believe the variations of this teaching I've read from folks who are secretly ashamed of this doctrine.)

If the church is true does this mean that every Christian clergyman/woman in the world is essentially going about an empty work?

I'm sure you get my point...

[_Gazelam]

Think of the work that other churchs do as an initiatory work, not an empty work.

The answers are there to your other questions. Get the spirit and answer them for yourself. I think you already have and are just kicking against the pricks.

Gaz

[_Sam Harris]

Think of the work that other churchs do as an initiatory work, not an empty work.

LOL, I don't see the work of honest believers as empty.

The answers are there to your other questions. Get the spirit and answer them for yourself. I think you already have and are just kicking against the pricks.

Gaz

What a cop out. I know what you think and what the fundamentalists in your church think. You wanna know what I think? Your answers are not Christian, they are not kind, and they are not BIBLICAL.

The color of my skin is a blessing from God, it is beauty, just as much as yours, not a curse for rubbing my crotch against a fence in the pre-existence, or a mark for Cain's transgression.

God judges the intent of hearts, not what building you walk into each week if you do, or what label you call yourself. Gaz, I fear you may wake up in heaven and see some folks there you don't want to see.

[_Mercury]

Think of the work that other churchs do as an initiatory work, not an empty work.

The answers are there to your other questions. Get the spirit and answer them for yourself. I think you already have and are just kicking against the pricks.

Gaz

Because your church is the Super Church, right? Please. Your church is the NRM no one will know about in 50 years. Hell, no one knows what Mormonism is NOW.

[_Mercury]

Gaz, I fear you may wake up in heaven and see some folks there you don't want to see.

Here Gaz, let me reply for you:

Ya mean Them colored folk?

Them there people arent white and Deeeeelightsome?

well sheeeeoot!

(if this sounds like I am blanketly calling Gaz a racist its because I am, that is unless he thinks almost every prophet of the LDS church was just "speaking as a man")

[_Gazelam]

I had a black girlfriend in high school, I am not a racist.

Lets get a foundation. Adam was a color, as was Eve. At what point did the other races come into the picture? Its told that Noahs son married a black woman, and the curse of Cain was carried through the flood in fullfillment of the will of God. She settled Egypt. Her son read the writings of Noah and from that came the Egyption temple rituals.

Am I missing something?

[_Sam Harris]

Are you missing something? Um, Gaz...if we were to tell you what you were missing, I don't think you'd want to play with us here anymore.

So you had a black girlfriend in high school (perhaps before you were enlightened as to why black people are inferior?)...whoop de do. I've dated all my life without looking at color. There's so much beneath that skin, ya know.

[_Sam Harris]

Oh, one more thing. Gaz, your explanation is not Biblical. The Bible says nothing about that rediculous story. So stop attaching your racism to Christianity.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Gaz...

Lets get a foundation. Adam was a color, as was Eve. At what point did the other races come into the picture? Its told that Noahs son married a black woman, and the curse of Cain was carried through the flood in fullfillment of the will of God. She settled Egypt. Her son read the writings of Noah and from that came the Egyption temple rituals.

With all due respect,

Humankind came out of Africa some time ago... we are ALL descendants of Africans with Black skin. This isn't disputed even by GAs and the brethren. You seem to be holding on to a view that is no longer taught in the LDS church. While your idea was once a common understanding in the church, today it is considered the opinion of uninformed men, by most well informed believers including the GAs and brethren.

But... your post proves my point that this racist idea, (that those with black skin with ancestors from Africa are descdants of Cain) still exists. Do you not see how sick this is? The brethren have yet to publically refute this nonsense. Why? I know for a fact that at least several of the Brethren do not believe such garbage and yet as strong as GBH came out last year trying to rid the church of their racist beliefs he STILL DID NOT refute the incorrect and hurtful former teaching. His message while strong was not clear enough as evidenced by the fact that you still hold onto those former, incorrect, cruel ideas.

AARRGGHHH!!!!

~dancer~

[_Sam Harris]

TD, for the GAs to backtrack and say "we were wrong" would put into question all their teachings. People like Gaz are holding onto stuff like this out of faith. Many know deep inside it's wrong, but they have such a need to have their leaders be right that they cannot let go. If (and hopefully when) the GAs refute this teaching, there will be a backlash, but hopefully it will lead the people of the LDS church as a whole to use their own intuition a lot more when listening to these men.