Yet another polygamy thread....

[_Yoda]

One of the reasons I think that so many of us who are faithful to the Church have problems with the principle of plural marriage is that it seems to be counter to everything else the gospel proports.

When you are married in the temple, you are counseled to form a partnership. The whole gospel revolves around the partnership with your spouse and with God.

I could never come to terms with the possibility of sharing my spouse with another woman. It would just be too much of an invasion of the emotional and physical bond we share.

I'm interested in thoughts from both sides of the aisle on this.

[_moksha]

BNet resident philosopher Bill has made an easy explanation of polygamy doctrine. Look for posts 35-43 here:
http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?pageID=3&discussionID=537411&messages_per_page=16

From the same philosopher Bill later on the same thread:

I completely reject Joseph Smith's revelation and explanation. I think it's an interesting story, one that made sense to a lot of people and allowed Joseph Smith to sleep around, but I don't find it particularly persuasive. In saying that, I don't feel any particular animosity toward Joseph Smith since I don't think he did anything "immoral," except to lie to his wife, his church and everybody around him - a game that would eventually catch up with him. I can't help but see Joseph Smith as a lovable rogue who saw through the arbitrary lines people set for themselves and who found a way to convince other people to let him bend those lines for him. I find Joseph Smith liberating in a way, because he had the courage to reject the nonsense he was born with, though he had to invent other nonsense to justify doing so and humor those who probably would have hanged him otherwise.

That Joseph Smith was eventually arrested, on trumped up charges, and then shot to death by a lynch mob, is just more evidence that people can only accept so much enlightenment before they grab the enlightener and throw him off a cliff. What happened to Joseph had happened to Jesus and others, and would later happen to Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, for "different" reasons that essentially come out to the same thing.

I can't remember the exact quote, but Joseph Smith reportedly told somebody that if he were to share even a fraction of what he knew, they'd burn him at the stake - or something like that. I think Joseph Smith was constantly toying with what he could get away with, in terms of building a better society, a better invention of religion and a better vision of eternity. He knew what he was doing when he ran off, and of what to expect when he came back.

[_rcrocket]

Plural marriage is a major challenge to any thinking person in the Church and is often the cause for many to leave (or, on the other hand, for many to perpetuate it).

You say that it is contrary to the Gospel and everything in it. As you evaluate the question of plural marriage, the following questions are pertinent. These questions really go to one of my underlying themes I emphasize on this Board. Don't just tell me something is wrong. Tell my why it is wrong, and cite the rule or standard I can read and digest.

1. Does the Bible prohibit it? If you think that it does, just how explicitly does it do so? Does it call it an abomination like homosexuality (or male prostitution, if you want to split hairs) or the sacrifice of infants?

2. Does the Bible condone it?

3. Is your revulsion to plural marriage based upon some extra-Biblical norm? If so, what is it?

4. If you are willing to accept the notion that the Lord can and has permitted plural marriage, can it be abused by men? If so, whose fault is that?

5. Finally, what do evolutionary biologists say? Is plural marriage the norm or the exception for homo sapiens in the history of man?

P

[_Runtu]

Plural marriage is a major challenge to any thinking person in the Church and is often the cause for many to leave (or, on the other hand, for many to perpetuate it).

You say that it is contrary to the Gospel and everything in it. As you evaluate the question of plural marriage, the following questions are pertinent. These questions really go to one of my underlying themes I emphasize on this Board. Don't just tell me something is wrong. Tell my why it is wrong, and cite the rule or standard I can read and digest.

1. Does the Bible prohibit it? If you think that it does, just how explicitly does it do so? Does it call it an abomination like homosexuality (or male prostitution, if you want to split hairs) or the sacrifice of infants?

2. Does the Bible condone it?

3. Is your revulsion to plural marriage based upon some extra-Biblical norm? If so, what is it?

4. If you are willing to accept the notion that the Lord can and has permitted plural marriage, can it be abused by men? If so, whose fault is that?

5. Finally, what do evolutionary biologists say? Is plural marriage the norm or the exception for homo sapiens in the history of man?

P

1. No, the Bible does not prohibit it.

2. As I said above, my revulsion is mainly due to the coercive and deceptive manner in which it was practiced, which I don't believe is Biblical.

3. Of course, if it were divinely sanctioned, abuse is possible. The problem is that not only was the practice allegedly commanded, but so also was the abuse (deceit and coercion). I suppose the people to blame are the men claiming God commanded them, which then casts doubt on whether he actually did.

4. Who cares? I've already gotten in hot water with truth dancer because I don't have a moral objection to consensual, informed polygamy.

[_Yoda]

3. Is your revulsion to plural marriage based upon some extra-Biblical norm? If so, what is it?

How about Jacob 2:27:

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

Thanks for bringing up some interesting questions, Plutarch. I'll address all of them a little later when I have time to do them justice. I'm late for a meeting at the moment.

Thanks for the beginnings of a good thread, guys!

:)

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Is your revulsion to plural marriage based upon some extra-Biblical norm? If so, what is it?
...

Finally, what do evolutionary biologists say? Is plural marriage the norm or the exception for homo sapiens in the history of man?

I think the standard stated by Jacob in Jacob 2:27-30, is that monogamy is God's rule, and that polygamy (v. 30) is the exception. What Joseph Smith did is essentially reverse this rule -- with the "restoration of all things," Joseph seemed to be saying that, for God, polygamy was the general (perhaps only) rule when all things are restored (thus, the belief in the early Church that polygamy is the marriage system in heaven, and is required for exaltation).

[_Jason Bourne]

1. Does the Bible prohibit it? If you think that it does, just how explicitly does it do so? Does it call it an abomination like homosexuality (or male prostitution, if you want to split hairs) or the sacrifice of infants?

The Law of Moses allowed it. It was practiced before that as well. It seems that is was allowed based on a cultural bases more then anything else. The New Testament does not allow it. I think the Old Testament allowed is just like Jesus said divorce was allowed, because of the hardness of the people's hearts. Supposedly we had come a long ways culturally by 1830.

One more point. The Bible may have allowed it but it did not require it as part of being exalted. I do not think Biblical polygamy and LDS polygamy are the same in many ways, especially as a requirement to become Gods, and yes this was what celestial marriage meant from 1841-1890

2. Does the Bible condone it?

It tolerates it. There is much in the Bible that is not good so this is not always my standard. The Old Testament allowed a lot of stuff that we would find barbaric today.

3. Is your revulsion to plural marriage based upon some extra-Biblical norm? If so, what is it?

For me it is based on the cultural norms that I have been brought up with as well as the idea that we have socially evolved beyond the point of polygamy which is bad for women.

4. If you are willing to accept the notion that the Lord can and has permitted plural marriage, can it be abused by men? If so, whose fault is that?

Of course it is the fault of men. Can it be of God when it is abusive from its starting point?

5. Finally, what do evolutionary biologists say? Is plural marriage the norm or the exception for homo sapiens in the history of man?

I do not know.

[_Gazelam]

Polygamy is not essential to salvation, but consecration is.

[_Jason Bourne]

Polygamy is not essential to salvation, but consecration is.

Brigham Young said it was essential for exaltation.

And how does consecration play into multiple wives?

[_rcrocket]

Polygamy is not essential to salvation, but consecration is.

Brigham Young said it was essential for exaltation.

And how does consecration play into multiple wives?

Oh, please. [Sexist comment about shopping deleted here.]

P