Does the Church Instill Paranoia in Members?

[_Mister Scratch]

All this from a guy who lives in mortal fear of a very small and obscure Church committee that is essentially nothing more than a news clipping service. Can you say "PROJECTION"? ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade, I used to work there, and I met the head of that committee (at that time it was Bill Nelson [I'm not good at remembering names after 15 years]). It's not a clipping service, though that is one of its functions.

If you're going to insult someone, at least do it accurately.

I met Pres. Kimball in the halls of a church building once, and I flew home from my mission in the seat next to President Hinckley's wife. It is essentially a clipping service.

If you portend to hypocritically chasten someone, at least do it with more credibility than a one-time meeting with someone years ago.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Are you actually claiming that you discussed the SCMC with Mrs. Hinckley? Moreover, how was you bumping into these people anything more than "a one-time meeting with someone years ago"?

As expected, you completely missed the point. (Hint: I was intentionally being facetious.)

But, rest assured that you are safe behind the thick and inpregnable barrior of your closed mind.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

So basically what you're saying is that you actually don't have any counterargument. Well done, Wade.

[_asbestosman]

So, I guess my question is this: Is paranoia and inherent aspect of the LDS Church?

I don't think so. I'm not "afraid" of the consequences of my choices although I do like to understand them. Just as the lower kingdoms (Terrestrial, and Telestial) aren't forms of punishment but rather kingdoms with the appropriate rules, I don't see why I should fear where I end up. It will be where I am most comfortable. If there really are lists of naughty people, I need not fear unless it was something I truly regretted for myself. I should never regret being discovered since if I truly enjoyed the sin I'd probably be in good company anyhow. If I just feel bad about how it hurts the people I love, then I should either remove myself from them and enjoy the sin, do it and accept the fact that it will hurt them, or simply not do it. Perhaps even more than my own embarasment I should be concerned for those who feel they cannot seek help to change because they are too embarassed to ask for it. That is truly a tragedy. I'm not saying one shoudl flaunt or be super open with their sins, but maybe there is an element of judgmentalism that could be worked on too. On the other hand a sinner should be willing to face the consequences of their actions including some embarasment.

I'm not the type to continually worry about my salvation anymore. If I don't make it to the Celestial Kingdom I just want assurance that I'll find the most happiness I can--the kind of happiness I desire. I have no doubts that I will. I plan to live my life without regrets although having learned from the past as well.

The thread reminds me of a song from my highschool years. Is this how you guys view the LDS church?

this is not helping me at all
what you are doing here
in the name of god and love
it's the distribution of fear
pyramids, healing wires, analysts with fame
I haven't got your degree
and I forgot your name

pick me up and put me on the ground
set me up and spin me all around
no, you are not the one I wish to see

this is not helping me at all where did we get this plan?
that you could give to me what I might already have pyramids,

healing wires, a musician's fame
I volunteered you my eyes
in place of facing me

oh Hitler, in a robe of truth
my emptiness has built your altar
and I've worshipped myself in you forever
until now!

[_Mister Scratch]

So, I guess my question is this: Is paranoia and inherent aspect of the LDS Church?

I don't think so. I'm not "afraid" of the consequences of my choices although I do like to understand them. Just as the lower kingdoms (Terrestrial, and Telestial) aren't forms of punishment but rather kingdoms with the appropriate rules, I don't see why I should fear where I end up. It will be where I am most comfortable. If there really are lists of naughty people, I need not fear unless it was something I truly regretted for myself. I should never regret being discovered since if I truly enjoyed the sin I'd probably be in good company anyhow. If I just feel bad about how it hurts the people I love, then I should either remove myself from them and enjoy the sin, do it and accept the fact that it will hurt them, or simply not do it. Perhaps even more than my own embarasment I should be concerned for those who feel they cannot seek help to change because they are too embarassed to ask for it. That is truly a tragedy. I'm not saying one shoudl flaunt or be super open with their sins, but maybe there is an element of judgmentalism that could be worked on too. On the other hand a sinner should be willing to face the consequences of their actions including some embarasment.

I'm not the type to continually worry about my salvation anymore. If I don't make it to the Celestial Kingdom I just want assurance that I'll find the most happiness I can--the kind of happiness I desire. I have no doubts that I will. I plan to live my life without regrets although having learned from the past as well.

I very much like your personalized take on this, Asbestosman. What do you make of the Church's role, however? E.g., what do you think of the heavy secrecy, for instance, or organizations such as the SCMC? Or the BYU spying rings?

The thread reminds me of a song from my highschool years. Is this how you guys view the LDS church?

this is not helping me at all
what you are doing here
in the name of god and love
it's the distribution of fear
pyramids, healing wires, analysts with fame
I haven't got your degree
and I forgot your name

pick me up and put me on the ground
set me up and spin me all around
no, you are not the one I wish to see

this is not helping me at all where did we get this plan?
that you could give to me what I might already have pyramids,

healing wires, a musician's fame
I volunteered you my eyes
in place of facing me

oh Hitler, in a robe of truth
my emptiness has built your altar
and I've worshipped myself in you forever
until now!

Say, what is that song?

[_moksha]

"...and I flew home from my mission in the seat next to President Hinckley's wife. It is essentially a clipping service."

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

"...and remember Wade, when you wake up you will believe it is only a clipping service and you - what else should we throw in? - Oh yeah, you will have loved the airline food and you will be vociferous on the Internet...let's tell Mrs. Hinkley she can return to her seat now."

[_wenglund]

All this from a guy who lives in mortal fear of a very small and obscure Church committee that is essentially nothing more than a news clipping service. Can you say "PROJECTION"? ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade, I used to work there, and I met the head of that committee (at that time it was Bill Nelson [I'm not good at remembering names after 15 years]). It's not a clipping service, though that is one of its functions.

If you're going to insult someone, at least do it accurately.

I met Pres. Kimball in the halls of a church building once, and I flew home from my mission in the seat next to President Hinckley's wife. It is essentially a clipping service.

If you portend to hypocritically chasten someone, at least do it with more credibility than a one-time meeting with someone years ago.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Are you actually claiming that you discussed the SCMC with Mrs. Hinckley? Moreover, how was you bumping into these people anything more than "a one-time meeting with someone years ago"?

As expected, you completely missed the point. (Hint: I was intentionally being facetious.)

But, rest assured that you are safe behind the thick and inpregnable barrior of your closed mind.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

So basically what you're saying is that you actually don't have any counterargument. Well done, Wade.

For it to have been a counterargument, there must, of necessity, have been an argument to counter. What I am saying is that there wasn't an argument on your part. It was merely a predictable misunderstanding on your part. So, I can't really take credit for your stupidity. But...

Thanks anyway, -Wade Enlgund-

[_Mister Scratch]

All this from a guy who lives in mortal fear of a very small and obscure Church committee that is essentially nothing more than a news clipping service. Can you say "PROJECTION"? ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade, I used to work there, and I met the head of that committee (at that time it was Bill Nelson [I'm not good at remembering names after 15 years]). It's not a clipping service, though that is one of its functions.

If you're going to insult someone, at least do it accurately.

I met Pres. Kimball in the halls of a church building once, and I flew home from my mission in the seat next to President Hinckley's wife. It is essentially a clipping service.

If you portend to hypocritically chasten someone, at least do it with more credibility than a one-time meeting with someone years ago.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Are you actually claiming that you discussed the SCMC with Mrs. Hinckley? Moreover, how was you bumping into these people anything more than "a one-time meeting with someone years ago"?

As expected, you completely missed the point. (Hint: I was intentionally being facetious.)

But, rest assured that you are safe behind the thick and inpregnable barrior of your closed mind.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

So basically what you're saying is that you actually don't have any counterargument. Well done, Wade.

For it to have been a counterargument, there must, of necessity, have been an argument to counter. What I am saying is that there wasn't an argument on your part. It was merely a predictable misunderstanding on your part. So, I can't really take credit for your stupidity. But...

Thanks anyway, -Wade Enlgund-

The argument is that the SCMC is more than "a very small clipping service." You've provided no evidence contrary to that. Sorry, my dear friend, but it looks like I win again. ; )

[_asbestosman]

I very much like your personalized take on this, Asbestosman. What do you make of the Church's role, however? E.g., what do you think of the heavy secrecy, for instance, or organizations such as the SCMC? Or the BYU spying rings?

SCMC doesn't bother me. I think it helps protect people from wolves in sheep's clothing.

The BYU spy rings don't bother me either because I have no expectation of privacy while enrolled there. The only thing about BYU that bothers me is the possibility (I don't know for sure) of losing academic credit if you were LDS but no longer believe. I think they have the right to refuse to let you stay, but they should at least work out the problems related to credit for time and money the student invested in the education.

Say, what is that song?

"Top" by Live in their album, Throwing Copper

[_Sam Harris]

I think so. There's paranoia about angels potentially blocking you from entering the temple, the bishop knowing your sins during an interview, the Stake President finding out through discernment that you're not being honest in your recommend interview, getting ratted on to your bishopric, etc.

I once believed all of those.

I remember feeling sick when faced with a bishop's interview because I was intimate with a boyfriend during a prior year of inactivity. I was so scared that somehow everyone would find out.

I remember seeing folks glancing to the right and the left during sacrament to see who wasn't taking it, and the guilt on people's faces (my own included) when they couldn't eat it.

I was told stories of people being struck dead for entering the temple "impure". It was impressed upon me that the bishop knew everything about me. Looking back I cannot believe I subjected myself to that.

When I was on FAIR, I was not about to tell folk where I lived, because I believed the Mormon network to be that big, that someone would find out what ward I was in, and since my email is unique and most in my ward knew it because of the listserv, I'd get found out.

[_Sam Harris]

I am uncertain about the paranoia part (they may indeed be out to get us), but there is no doubt that greater openness and acceptance would benefit all of those who are members of the LDS Church.

In the meantime, rest assured that this website is under surveillance and a report of it will be forwarded to Dr. Peterson, to be initialed and sent back to headquarters.

hehe, report wherever you wish, i got my resignation letter back this week.(i know your joking) Only that which you allow has power over you.

He was joking. Mok has a unique sense of humor.

[_Ray A]

Life instils paranoia in me. I'm always paranoid that my daughter is going to ask for another $50.