Does the Church Instill Paranoia in Members?

[_Jersey Girl]

GIMR: It was impressed upon me that the bishop knew everything about me.

Jersey Girl: If the Bishop knew everything about you why did he have to interview you? Or am I mistaking your meaning? Are you saying that you were taught the Bishop had special perceptions about you or that he simply held private information as a result of interviewing you?

[_Sam Harris]

I think this is a good analysis, Jersey Girl. My sense is that the paranoia in inextricably tied to the rampant secrecy in the Church---and, as Rollo points out, the "all or nothing" approach. Further, I think it's unfortunate that so often apologists dismiss this part of the culture with the wave of a hand, or else they go into self-deprecation/ridicule mode, making jokes about foil hats and so forth. That does little to address the issue, in my opinion.

What do you think of a debater who insists upon an apology for every slight, every offense? [Betting that, as usual -- although you are getting better -- you won't answer and will respond with an insult or a question].

P

What do you think of a debater who can't speak on the topic at hand, rather throwing out insults about people's character, coward, hypocrite, etc.? [Betting that as usual, you will ignore questions that bring your own behavior into question.]

[_Mister Scratch]

I very much like your personalized take on this, Asbestosman. What do you make of the Church's role, however? E.g., what do you think of the heavy secrecy, for instance, or organizations such as the SCMC? Or the BYU spying rings?

SCMC doesn't bother me. I think it helps protect people from wolves in sheep's clothing.

The BYU spy rings don't bother me either because I have no expectation of privacy while enrolled there. The only thing about BYU that bothers me is the possibility (I don't know for sure) of losing academic credit if you were LDS but no longer believe. I think they have the right to refuse to let you stay, but they should at least work out the problems related to credit for time and money the student invested in the education.

My apologies, asbestosman---I did a poor job phrasing my initial question. What I meant to say was, Don't you think that the SCMC and BYU spy rings are pretty conclusive evidence of paranoia in the Church? (Not amongst the members necessarily, but within the institution itself?)

[_Gazelam]

For example, the Temple Ceremonies wherein members are not permitted to discuss even between husband and wife, what they've experienced there and how they feel about it.

A couple is free to discuss ANYTHING they want to about the Temple in the temple. There is no time limit on the celestial room. Stay in there all you want. don't want to hang out there, go to the forum. Talk there, Theres chairs all over the place.

Also the "don't discuss this" part of the temple is only in reference to certain parts. The Doctrines espoused are free game. Discuss them ad nauseum.

People are free to discuss the temple and what goes on there alot more than alot of church members think. The whole thing of care taken to the discussion of such things is an effort to keep them sacred and special, not to toss around at a dinner party.

D&C 63:64
64 Remember that that which cometh from above is sacred, and must be spoken with care, and by constraint of the Spirit; and in this there is no condemnation, and ye receive the Spirit through prayer; wherefore, without this there remaineth condemnation.

[_Sam Harris]

Life instils paranoia in me. I'm always paranoid that my daughter is going to ask for another $50.

If you regularly grant her request, I have but one question:

Will you please adopt me?

[_Gazelam]

Your opening post on this thread is rife with supposed problems and contrived sources of paranoia.

You site Elder Featherstones talk as evidence the induction of paranoia in regards to peoples sins being made public, so they had "better watch out".

You obvious lack of regard for scripture and spiritual understanding can be seen as a root for your desire to start a thread on this subject, so in that regard i'll forgive your ignorance and its results displayed here. Hopefully in the future you'll devote your reading to the search for divine undertsanding and set aside your wallowing in the worldly opinions of supposed scholars and dimestore philosophers.

There is a pattern to heavenly learning. It comes through a slow, and sometimes painful, sluffing off of the things of the world and a focus on the things of the spirit. That there is a process is manifest in the record of John found in D&C 93:12-14

12 And I, John, saw that he received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace;
13 And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness;
14 And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first.

What this process is often refered to as is called repentence. This means a turning away from the things of the world, or a turning towards God. In either case this means a change.

Because of Jesus Christ we are able to cleanse ourselves from the sins of the World, or the breaking of commandments that God has perscribed. God gives us commandments to introduce good habits into our lives, habits that allow us to understand Gods character by imitateing his actions.

Because of the nature of our Father in heaven no unclean thing can dwell there. (Alma 11:37) A disobedient and rebellious soul constitutes an unclean thing. It is the desire of nearly all mortal men and women to return to the presence of our Father.

If someone feels guilt because of sin then they are on the road to repentance, having recognized the fault. Once they regain the Spirit and enjoy the company of the Holy Ghost, they can know they are forgiven and forget the former crime, promiseing never to do it again.

The Paranoia you speak of stems from those who live in a state of rebellion, the guilt of their knowingly commiting sin and shutting themselves off from the Holy Ghost.

When the Spirit of the Holy Ghost is removed from a person they are quick to take offence, they feel empty and hollow, defensive, secretive and evasive. They question others motives and take delight in others problems. Until they return to the ways of God these feelings will remain. Along with this is a strong sense of criticism towards those in authority, which may cause a false sence of paranoia.


Also note, that all mens sins will be made apparent in the resurrection when they receive their bodies. (D&C 88: 11-63)

[_asbestosman]

My apologies, asbestosman---I did a poor job phrasing my initial question. What I meant to say was, Don't you think that the SCMC and BYU spy rings are pretty conclusive evidence of paranoia in the Church? (Not amongst the members necessarily, but within the institution itself?)

Paranoia? I don't think so. Can you be paranoid if they really are out to get you? There really are wolves in the flock.

[_Sam Harris]

GIMR: It was impressed upon me that the bishop knew everything about me.

Jersey Girl: If the Bishop knew everything about you why did he have to interview you? Or am I mistaking your meaning? Are you saying that you were taught the Bishop had special perceptions about you or that he simply held private information as a result of interviewing you?

Private information. Word always got around my ward, people talked who shouldn't have. I learned who my friends were really quick around there.

[_Ray A]

Life instils paranoia in me. I'm always paranoid that my daughter is going to ask for another $50.

If you regularly grant her request, I have but one question:

Will you please adopt me?

I do regularly grant her request for "essentials" like hair dye and phone credit, and sometimes feel like an ATM. I'll adopt you when this last little birdie leaves the nest (four already left), as long as you pay the air fare to Australia :)

[_Sam Harris]

Life instils paranoia in me. I'm always paranoid that my daughter is going to ask for another $50.

If you regularly grant her request, I have but one question:

Will you please adopt me?

I do regularly grant her request for "essentials" like hair dye and phone credit, and sometimes feel like an ATM. I'll adopt you when this last little birdie leaves the nest (four already left), as long as you pay the air fare to Australia :)

Hmmm...airfare might be a problem. And don't you live in a place that has oodles of poisonous animals? Snakes, spiders, jellyfish? I'd never leave the house.

Well, since the majority of you over there are still alive, I guess it's gotta be ok. But I'm afraid of things in nature that bite or sting. My dad lived in the country, I hated it. Everything was bigger than you were, and agressive, too. I once saw a 3-inch long wasp. 3 inches!!!! Luckily for me, it was dying.