Questions about BYU

[_maklelan]

Let's try to separate BYU into it's list of parts, and why people go there.

BYU-Idaho: judging by the per capita marriage rate for Rexburg ID, they go there mainly to get married.

Judging by the sexual assaults that take place in prison, men go their to get raped. What you've speculated is a fallacy. Causality. You have no idea on earth why people go there.

BYU-Provo: judging by the per capita birth rate for Provo UT, they go there to have babies (or maybe so many of them transfer from BYU-Idaho after they get married that it skews the numbers).

Please share the numbers with me that I may evaluate them for myself.

BYU-Hawaii: judging by the proximity of the beach, they go there to have fun.

Or judging by the proximity of a volcano, they go there to study volcanoes. Again, causality.

Now, what about the academics?

Well, at BYU-Idaho, Ag is a big deal. It's not known for much else, though. An Art degree will get you a job at the mall selling clothes, though.

And it has gotten my friend Sunny a full ride to Ohio State and tens of thousands of dollars for her final show before graduation. Don't get started on art.

BYU-Provo is definitely better known. The business dept is world-class, as are some engineering schools. However, the Social Sciences departments are laughers (maybe they'd improve if they could get Dr Mauss to come out of retirement and get rid of the guy who refused to teach about Freud). The education dept isn't anything to write home about, but the Foreign Languages is generally top-drawer. A mixed bag, for sure.

Jsut like every school, even Harvard and Princeton.

BYU-Hawaii? Hmmm... Surfing 101?

Of course, this is coming from a person who has limited if any use for BYU, no matter what campus.

The door swings both ways on that comment.

[_Yoda]

This is a very common stereotype, and I'm sure that many people have this same experience, but every girl I've ever talked to (I can't say either way about the guys) has hated being judged in that light. My wife specifically did not want to get married while at school.

Is it really a matter of judging, though? I'm not saying that you should go to BYU, or anywhere else, for that matter, just to meet someone. I'm a college instructor, myself, so I'm all about Higher Education. But, I think that the majority of students who attend BYU are kidding themselves, if they say they are going there strictly because of it's educational reputation. There are plenty of other universities that have just as rigorous an admissions policy, and are considered more "Ivy League" by the world's standards. Obviously, things worked for you. You met your wife there. (I'm assuming you're still a student, since you mentioned you were going to history class. ;) ) And, even though your wife may have finished school before marrying you, the point is, she met you at the Y.

But deriving from the fact that we got married at BYU the idea that our intentions were to do so is fallacious. Mormons get married relatively young, and young people are often at college. This doesn't mean their intentions of going to BYU are to get married.

I'm not trying to beat up on you here, and I hope you could tell from the smileys that I was kidding with you a little in an upbeat way. After all, I met my husband while going to school as well. My primary reason for going to BYU was to get an education, as was, I'm sure, yours. However, I think that if I had graduated from the Y before meeting someone, I would have been disappointed. I wasn't going to school to specifically look for a husband, but I did assume that college would more than likely be the place where I would meet someone who shared similar goals to my own.

[_maklelan]

I'm not trying to beat up on you here, and I hope you could tell from the smileys that I was kidding with you a little in an upbeat way. After all, I met my husband while going to school as well. My primary reason for going to BYU was to get an education, as was, I'm sure, yours. However, I think that if I had graduated from the Y before meeting someone, I would have been disappointed. I wasn't going to school to specifically look for a husband, but I did assume that college would more than likely be the place where I would meet someone who shared similar goals to my own.

And many, many people think that all over the country. College has always been a concentration of young people who share several driving forces. Sex takes place on probably every university campus in the country, and on most of them it's a lot. At BYU this is manifested in more marriages. I don't think anyone else goes to college specifically to have sex, and I don't think the same can be said of BYU and marriage, although it is a popular stereotype.

And no, I didn't think you were beating up on me.

[_moksha]

It's a private university, and it can do what it pleases, irrespective of your ideas about how a university should operate. [/i]

Within reason. The justice system told them point blank they had to discontinue their electronic surveillance of students. No judge (well there might be a few in Utah, Mississippi and Alabama) would issue them a warrant just so they could ferret out suspected homosexuals (and even the Mississippi and Alabama judges would never issue a warrant for surveillance of alleged drinking). However, they can have a strong spy network and interrogation system. They, as a matter of fact, are so good that if Bush had been more on the ball, he would have first called in the BYU Special Ops Unit for both Abu Graibe and Guantanamo Bay.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

But deriving from the fact that we got married at BYU the idea that our intentions were to do so is fallacious. Mormons get married relatively young, and young people are often at college. This doesn't mean their intentions of going to BYU are to get married.

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but ....

For years my mother used to say that she encouraged all her children to attend BYU because she wanted us "to find a nice LDS spouse." And it worked, in most cases. I met my wife there, but we did not marry until after graduation, so I don't technically count. I certainly never went there intending to find a wife (even though I did), but I know of many students who did, and some were disappointed if they graduated without finding a spouse. I even know of several who delayed graduation, or stayed at BYU to do graduate work, with the primary purpose being to find a spouse before they had to go out in 'the real world.'

[_harmony]

Do you want to know the color of my underwear too? What kind of stupid question is that? I'm a temple recommend holding active member, and that's a damned impertinent question to ask.

If you really have a temple recommend then I already know what color your underwear is. I doubt that's true, though, as most of what you have said to me has been false, and you use language in the above post that is very unbecoming of a temple recommend holding member of the church. That and you have ceaselessly praised every single person who has bashed the church since I've arrived.

And from that information, you've determined that not only am I not a full tithe payer, but I'm not active and I don't have a TR. Hon, I hope you don't handle your finances or your marriages using the same deductive skills, because if you do, you're going to be broke and single again in no time.

I am indeed a TR holding active member with multiple callings. And that sticks in the craw of virtually every apologist I've ever encountered. They just cannot stand the idea that every time they sit in a temple session, I could be sitting across the aisle. The whole idea tends to bring out the self-righteous prick-iness that they like to keep buried deep inside.

Are you dimly aware of the US News rankings? BYU is consistently out of the top tier.

There is no seperation of "tiers" in the U.S. News rankings.

Yeah, there is. There's the Top Tier (usually the Top 25, sometimes the Top 50, usually listed on the first page of the report), then there's the 2nd tier (usually the next 50-100), then there's the bottom tier (usually about 150-200 schools). At least BYU's never been on the bottom. Usually they're in the 60-70 range. Sometimes U of U is on the bottom (it's so embarrassing)

Well, since we know more and more applicants are competing for fewer and fewer spots, we can assume that those applicants aren't attending their state universities (and Church Institutes) until after they're turned down for BYU admission.

Fewer and fewer spots? The school is growing, not shrinking.

Our tithing dollar at work, more's the pity. Growing so much they can't even put everyone in school during the same schedule, they have to start the semester in April, and then go all summer. Oh yeah, that makes lots of sense. It totally screws up summer work opportunities, and limits the internship opportunities... but hey! They can put BYU on their resume, right?

Please provide your documentation that BYU is a "force" for "good" in "the world".

I asked first.

No dear. I asked you a question first. I asked for what definition you're using for "force" and "good" and "the world". I have yet to see your reply.

And you might want to read some stats, like the one that says that Rexburg ID has the highest per capita marriage rate in the country, or the one that says that Provo UT has the highest birth rate in the country. And by all means, read US News. BYU has never cracked the Top 10, and is often in the 2nd tier (50-100). If our elite flagship university cannot even compete with the Top 10, and it often in the middle tier, what does that say about the education we offer? Oh, and let us not forget about the whole stifling atmosphere. You really ought to talk to Patton about what it's like to be a professor in an atmosphere that rejects academic openness.

You really think we have only ten good universities in the US? What schools did you go to?

[/quote]

That's not what I said. I siad BYU never cracked US News Top 10. Ever heard of Harvard? Stanford? If BYU's really the Lord's University, influencing "the [whole frickin'] world" for "good", don't you think they'd at least be in the Top Ten schools?

[_maklelan]

Yeah, there is. There's the Top Tier (usually the Top 25, sometimes the Top 50, usually listed on the first page of the report), then there's the 2nd tier (usually the next 50-100), then there's the bottom tier (usually about 150-200 schools). At least BYU's never been on the bottom. Usually they're in the 60-70 range. Sometimes U of U is on the bottom (it's so embarrassing).

The U gets what it deserves. If I missed a tier system then I am wrong. I apologize.

Our tithing dollar at work, more's the pity. Growing so much they can't even put everyone in school during the same schedule, they have to start the semester in April, and then go all summer. Oh yeah, that makes lots of sense. It totally screws up summer work opportunities, and limits the internship opportunities... but hey! They can put BYU on their resume, right?

So you're jsut going to abandon your previous theory to back up its antithesis?

No dear. I asked you a question first. I asked for what definition you're using for "force" and "good" and "the world". I have yet to see your reply.

Force: any power that exercises any influence on another person, place or thing. Good: contributign to the development and progress of individuals and society. The world: the world.

That's not what I said. I siad BYU never cracked US News Top 10. Ever heard of Harvard? Stanford? If BYU's really the Lord's University, influencing "the [whole frickin'] world" for "good", don't you think they'd at least be in the Top Ten schools?

No I don't. Why would I?

[_rcrocket]

And from that information, you've determined that not only am I not a full tithe payer, but I'm not active and I don't have a TR. Hon, I hope you don't handle your finances or your marriages using the same deductive skills, because if you do, you're going to be broke and single again in no time.

I am indeed a TR holding active member with multiple callings. And that sticks in the craw of virtually every apologist I've ever encountered. They just cannot stand the idea that every time they sit in a temple session, I could be sitting across the aisle. The whole idea tends to bring out the self-righteous prick-iness that they like to keep buried deep inside.

I don't see it as sticking in their craw. I see it as in inherently moral weakness to which you are admitting. One which causes us to roll our eyes and comment. We ask, how are we to trust and listen to your statments when you, on the one hand, use anonymity to ridicule the Church and its brethren, and on the other hand, claim publicly to be a "TR holding active member with multiple callings." Your posts on this board would lead to church discipline, and clearly so because little of it is carefully couched, and for that reason you lack the courage to use your name.

I also don't understand how it is you feel it necessarily to impale almost all your arguments with irrelevant anecodotes. Personal anecdotes prove nothing.

I am also amazed by the above post where you demand sources and references when, in the past, you almost always decline to do so.

Carry on.

P

[_maklelan]

I am also amazed by the above post where you demand sources and references when, in the past, you almost always decline to do so.

I would point out that I have requested sources on several occasions and have only been given one very vague invitation to go find something myself.

[_moksha]

Yeah, there is. There's the Top Tier (usually the Top 25, sometimes the Top 50, usually listed on the first page of the report), then there's the 2nd tier (usually the next 50-100), then there's the bottom tier (usually about 150-200 schools). At least BYU's never been on the bottom. Usually they're in the 60-70 range. Sometimes U of U is on the bottom (it's so embarrassing)

These ratings are bunk. Especially the ones by US News. They exist in their present form to help with the endowment funds of the top rated universities. When quote them, we help legitimatize their usage.