A MA&D Poster Links to this Board

[_wenglund]

I know. There was many times I felt slighted over there and had to grit my teeth. I know you have faced that both places. I suppose we just must grit our teeth and go on with what we are doing. Those who show such discourtesy are undoubtedly working on some bad karma.

Actually, I no longer feel all that "slighted" nor have I had much of a need to grit my teeth now that my purpose for posting on boards such as this is to specifically address the "bad karma". ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Dr. Shades]

One's inability to post because he/she is either (i) banned by the bb admin., or (ii) just can't hack it due to 'thin skin,' just ain't the same thing, in my opinion.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Rollo. There's a WORLD of difference between the two propositions!

[_wenglund]

In truth, censorship and bannings may be enforced through aversive and repelling actions as well as through deletion and denial of access. In other words, people can be driven from a board, or kept from participating on a board, by the aversive and repelling atmosphere of a board, just as they may be driven and kept from participating on a board by administrative action.

Sorry, but this is a cop-out. One's inability to post because he/she is either (i) banned by the bb admin., or (ii) just can't hack it due to 'thin skin,' just ain't the same thing, in my opinion.

I understand that your inherent need to self-protect and self-promote may force you to see things in that highly biased way.

Unfortunately, though, that type of biased thinking can, at times, though certainly not always, be an impediment to positive and healthy change.

The good news is, not a few people have found ways to keep from being banned from places like FAIR/MAD, and have matured such that they no longer come across as aversive or repelling to the thin or thick skinned.

And, in anticipation of the fingers here that are often want to point my way (while ironically failing to introspectively acknowledge the mea culpas), I find this news good and hopeful for me as well. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Rollo Tomasi]

I understand that your inherent need to self-protect and self-promote may force you to see things in that highly biased way.

I experienced both at FAIR -- I had a very 'thick skin' (I was attacked every day over there), but was still banned by the Mods.

The good news is, not a few people have found ways to keep from being banned from places like FAIR/MAD, and have matured such that they no longer come across as aversive or repelling to the thin or thick skinned.

You thought my posts on FAIR were "repelling"? I tried very hard to keep my posts even-keeled, including references for my positions, despite the constant personal invective thrown my way. Those insults didn't bother me (because I do have a 'thick skin'), and it drove folks nuts over there when I wouldn't bite at the personal attacks but simply continued to calmly demonstrate (with facts and citations) why their position was usually wrong.

[_harmony]

I travel a lot for business purposes. Last night, I was online in my hotel room, checking email and such, and realized that my access to MAD was an open door. I could have registered a fake name, with a made up for the occasion email address, and posted. However, I didn't. I did, however, check the threads and found them almost entirely boring, checked the posts of the posters I recognized and found them almost entirely lame. The place lacked variety and seemed almost eerily homogenous. Was it always that way, or is this the result of the purges of those with diverse thoughts?

[_Pahoran]

You disappoint me, Shades, when you repeat the lie that people have been banned for disagreeing with anyone or "making prized apologists look bad."

Then why were those people banned (myself included), especially since they/we didn't break any rules?

I don't pretend to know the specific reason for each and every banning. The notion that you (of all people) might have been banned for winning arguments against "prized apologists" should get a good belly laugh, though.

Funny you should mention your blog. It is your blog--which is the where all the most permanent stuff goes, and over which the most heavy-handed editorial control is exercised--that causes me to challenge your "free speech" propaganda.

What, are you implying that people shouldn't have editorial control over the things they themselves write?

Not at all.

Censorship--by any other name, including "editorial control"--is not something that "shouldn't happen." It's just something that shouldn't be denied when it does happen.

When you set up a protected area of the board, call it a "blog," make it the exclusive preserve of your anti-Mormon cronies, heavily censor any corrective postings made thereto, and then claim that your entire board is a haven of free speech that has no censorship at all, you are quite consciously making a claim that you know is contrary to fact.

(That, and the fact that you have spent inordinate amounts of time trying to censor the rest of the Internet.)

Huh? How/when/where?

Four letters: ZLMB.

You see Shades, it is fairly safe for vicious haters to engage in uncensored debate when all of their opponents have far more scruples than they. It is as if a street gang were to set up a series of fights against boxers trained in the Marquess of Queensberry rules. It isn't fear of your magnificent debate skills that keeps LDS posters away from this sty, it's disgust at the kind of swill we have to wade in when we come here.

Then stay out of the Telestial Forum. How hard can it be?

Filthy language isn't only found in the Telestial forum. Polygamy Porter, VegasRefugee and other guttersnipes don't post only there. Contrary to your buddy Keene's adolescent assumption, it's not merely "whiny Mormons" who object to foul four-letter expletives being flung at their faith; there is another group of people who find such words repugnant, regardless of their religious affiliation: they are called "adults."

So you have the "no-holds-barred" section, in which LDS posters are free to operate at the great disadvantage of being the only civilised participants, . . .

Nobody is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to participate in the Telestial Forum.

Indeed, nobody is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to participate in any part of this forum at all. But as soon as we vote with our feet, you all delude yourselves that its because we are terrified of your vastly superior debate skills.

Yet the self-delusion seems not to be working very well. I'm certain that if you actually believed that, the quantity of skilful debating would overwhelm the quantity of spiteful venting.

. . . and you have the controlled section in which, AFAICT, editorial power can only be gained by comprehensively failing a lie detector test.

I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean.

If you say so.

So you go right on persisting in the wonderful lie that this place fosters a more open exchange of ideas than MA&D does.

But please know that I see through it.

Then perhaps you can enlighten me. You're probably the only person who DISagrees that MormonDiscussions fosters a more open exchange of ideas than MA&D. Heck, I'm sure 99% of the people at MA&D--moderators included--know that MormonDiscussions is much freer.

I doubt that 99% of the people at MA&D have heard of this joint. I haven't surveyed them; perhaps I could do so, using your famous technique: ask them six questions, and if they answer "yes" to one of them, count them as thinking this place is freer.

For example, you have repeatedly called this place a "sty"--even right here AT this place--but have Keene or I ever punished you for it?

Try calling MA&D a "sty" on MA&D and see how long they let you stay.

Why should I? I don't deny that I have taken advantage of the vaunted "freedom" in this area. That's what it's for, after all. When in Rome, and all that.

But I have tried to post in the protected area; my postings were severely censored, and what was left after the mangling was maliciously misrepresented.

So when you try to tell the cyberworld that this is a "freer" place, on the ground that the heavily censored area is called a "blog" and is therefore not part of the equation, you are not being straight up.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Jersey Girl]

Pahoran: When you set up a protected area of the board, call it a "blog," make it the exclusive preserve of your anti-Mormon cronies, heavily censor any corrective postings made thereto, and then claim that your entire board is a haven of free speech that has no censorship at all, you are quite consciously making a claim that you know is contrary to fact.

Jersey Girl: What Blog are you talking about, Pahoran? Are you referring to the inclusion of real life names by Mr. Scratch?

[_Dr. Shades]

Okay, Pahoran, I think I know what you're getting at now:

When you set up a protected area of the board, call it a "blog," make it the exclusive preserve of your anti-Mormon cronies, heavily censor any corrective postings made thereto, and then claim that your entire board is a haven of free speech that has no censorship at all, you are quite consciously making a claim that you know is contrary to fact.

Now I get what you're talking about. Mister Scratch deleted several responses made to some of his articles. That's fine, since each blog is the sole property of the one who owns it.

However, you're missing an important fact: The blogs are still a free speech zone, since ANYONE--yourself included--can set up a blog here. Hardly "the exclusive preserve of my anti-Mormon cronies" (whoever they are), all it takes to qualify for your own blog is that you be a registered member of MormonDiscussions.com, which you of course are.

So, Pahoran, please feel free to set up your very own blog here about whatever you like. Delete and censor responses thereunto to your heart's desire.

(That, and the fact that you have spent inordinate amounts of time trying to censor the rest of the Internet.)

Huh? How/when/where?

Four letters: ZLMB.

You're joking, right? Mr. Itchy repeatedly plasters my personal information, my wife's name, etc. all over ZLMB, I take it to the moderators who (other than Paul Hadik) ignore these blatant rule violations while simultaneously suggesting I take it up with the EzBoard staff, then ban me for doing precisely what they suggested?

Reporting blatant rule violations is hardly censorship.

Filthy language isn't only found in the Telestial forum. Polygamy Porter, VegasRefugee and other guttersnipes don't post only there. Contrary to your buddy Keene's adolescent assumption, it's not merely "whiny Mormons" who object to foul four-letter expletives being flung at their faith; there is another group of people who find such words repugnant, regardless of their religious affiliation: they are called "adults."

Haven't I been doing a good enough job keeping such words out of the Terrestrial Forum?

Indeed, nobody is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to participate in any part of this forum at all. But as soon as we vote with our feet, you all delude yourselves that its because we are terrified of your vastly superior debate skills.

I admit, that was a good one.

Yet the self-delusion seems not to be working very well. I'm certain that if you actually believed that, the quantity of skilful debating would overwhelm the quantity of spiteful venting.

That's the magic of MormonDiscussions.com: The moderators don't dictate what people will or won't talk about.

I doubt that 99% of the people at MA&D have heard of this joint. I haven't surveyed them; perhaps I could do so, using your famous technique: ask them six questions, and if they answer "yes" to one of them, count them as thinking this place is freer.

C'mon, I'm not that bad!

Try calling MA&D a "sty" on MA&D and see how long they let you stay.

Why should I? I don't deny that I have taken advantage of the vaunted "freedom" in this area. That's what it's for, after all. When in Rome, and all that.

And you're a better man for it!

But I have tried to post in the protected area; my postings were severely censored, and what was left after the mangling was maliciously misrepresented.

Then start your own blog in response! Just click the "My Blog" link at the top and it'll walk you through everything.

So when you try to tell the cyberworld that this is a "freer" place, on the ground that the heavily censored area is called a "blog" and is therefore not part of the equation, you are not being straight up.

I'm being straight up if you, too, have perfectly equal access to the so-called "heavily censored area."

[_Pahoran]

Pahoran: When you set up a protected area of the board, call it a "blog," make it the exclusive preserve of your anti-Mormon cronies, heavily censor any corrective postings made thereto, and then claim that your entire board is a haven of free speech that has no censorship at all, you are quite consciously making a claim that you know is contrary to fact.

Jersey Girl: What Blog are you talking about, Pahoran? Are you referring to the inclusion of real life names by Mr. Scratch?

Not in particular, although that little saga does provide a fascinating subplot. No, I am referring to his gratuitous lies. I attempted to correct some of them, and my corrections were censored out of existence.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Jersey Girl]

Pahoran: When you set up a protected area of the board, call it a "blog," make it the exclusive preserve of your anti-Mormon cronies, heavily censor any corrective postings made thereto, and then claim that your entire board is a haven of free speech that has no censorship at all, you are quite consciously making a claim that you know is contrary to fact.

Jersey Girl: What Blog are you talking about, Pahoran? Are you referring to the inclusion of real life names by Mr. Scratch?

Not in particular, although that little saga does provide a fascinating subplot. No, I am referring to his gratuitous lies. I attempted to correct some of them, and my corrections were censored out of existence.

Regards,
Pahoran

Whose gratuitous lies, nephew, Mr. Scratch? Would you like to correct them here? I mean in this thread. I mean like right now. I mean like do it.

Jersey Girl