Questions about BYU

[_harmony]

No. Do you think God want you to say that? Or is that the devil talking?

That's me talkin'. Why don't you want to leave? Do you want to continue to have bad experiences so you can call yourself a martyr, or is there something else?

Why should I leave? I love this church. It pains me to see it be less than God intends, on all levels. I cannot help my fellow Saints, if I just quit.

[_Mister Scratch]

On the other hand, I am unaware of the antis running anything equivalent to the SCMC and its various espionage operations.

By all means, please document this accusation.

It's towards the end of the "Shadow Governments" chapter in the Quinn book I mentioned in the other thread. By the way, I will continue tapping my watch, waiting for you to provide documentation for your assertions vis-a-vis Church finances. You seem good at demanding documentation, but will you provide it when asked? I'll be waiting patiently.

[_Mister Scratch]

Let's see... I've had a cross burned into my lawn, my daughter's bedroom window shot out by a rifle, 6 months of obscene phone calls, sugar poured into my gas tank, an ice pick used to put holes in my tires. Ask me again what my family and I have endured for this church.

Obviously you have not endured to the end. Your posts give more comfort to the enemy than anybody else on this board.

What "enemy"? I seem to recall you accusing me of paranoia. I guess this means it's contagious, eh? In any case, I don't think there are any "enemies" here, Plu. We are all friends, so far as I'm concerned.

[_Roger Morrison]

We all have our unique conditioning-circumstances--natures & nurtures--which tend to our characters. Just the way it is: participants & spectators, heroes & not-heroes... Although my experience indicates LDSism does tend to condition the latter. Which calls all who tremble at the thought of 'exposure' to consider Jesus' example: No hesitation of putting his reputation and life on the line for what he believed. Of course, he was "Divine"...so mere mortals can't aspire to that until they're immortal... Right?? Another piece of stinking-thinking! IMSCO.

I recall a situation in Toronto Canada a few years ago where someone was called before an LDS Court. They showed up with their lawyer and the Press... I 'think' that's what i 'might' do, if called-to-court. IF ALL those called to account followed that pattern... LDS PR tactics and best-face-forward imaging, i think, would come into play.

And, i do have some confidence in the young blood in LDS leadership, as it comes. Those born after WWII can't help but be smarter than those born in the 20s... BLAH, BLAH, BLAH>>>>>>>> Warm regards, Roger Morrison

[_Runtu]

Just how do you know this? I've had people threaten me with bodily harm in the past. Are you suggesting that somehow I should just believe that perfect strangers are incapable of harming my family because they're nominally LDS? Color me jaded, but I'm not ready to risk my family's safety on the thought that all Mormons are harmless. When you've had the kind of hatred spewed at you that I have, you can tell me it's OK to let these people near my family.

I've been shot at, spit on, kicked out of public places and had several knives pulled on me because of my religion, so I'm not unfamiliar with persecution. I think to suggest that Mormons are unfamiliar with it is a little presumptuous. I generally don't hang around places real or online where I am confronting people like that. I've never seen anything like that on MAD, but people here seem to be surrounded by it. If you really think you're family is in danger then you probably should use a pseudonym, but you know what might work even better if your viewpoints cause such anger? Not coming to places like this, especially if it's just a forum for you to vent. There are better ways to do it.

I hate these kinds of pissing contents. Some whack job threatens me, and you act like it's no big deal and I'm being paranoid. Why? Because there aren't nut cases out there, or because I'm a "critic" of the church? At least you have the good sense to agree at this point that some people are indeed dangerous.

Seriously, we don't have to be enemies, smac. Once upon a time we had a pleasant correspondence. Now I'm a presumptuous, paranoid "venter" because I stated the obvious: some people are dangerous, and it's wise to be careful.

[_harmony]

Just how do you know this? I've had people threaten me with bodily harm in the past. Are you suggesting that somehow I should just believe that perfect strangers are incapable of harming my family because they're nominally LDS? Color me jaded, but I'm not ready to risk my family's safety on the thought that all Mormons are harmless. When you've had the kind of hatred spewed at you that I have, you can tell me it's OK to let these people near my family.

I've been shot at, spit on, kicked out of public places and had several knives pulled on me because of my religion, so I'm not unfamiliar with persecution. I think to suggest that Mormons are unfamiliar with it is a little presumptuous. I generally don't hang around places real or online where I am confronting people like that. I've never seen anything like that on MAD, but people here seem to be surrounded by it. If you really think you're family is in danger then you probably should use a pseudonym, but you know what might work even better if your viewpoints cause such anger? Not coming to places like this, especially if it's just a forum for you to vent. There are better ways to do it.

I hate these kinds of pissing contents. Some whack job threatens me, and you act like it's no big deal and I'm being paranoid. Why? Because there aren't nut cases out there, or because I'm a "critic" of the church? At least you have the good sense to agree at this point that some people are indeed dangerous.

Seriously, we don't have to be enemies, smac. Once upon a time we had a pleasant correspondence. Now I'm a presumptuous, paranoid "venter" because I stated the obvious: some people are dangerous, and it's wise to be careful.

*jaw on the floor* Well, that explains several things.

[_Bond...James Bond]

I hate these kinds of pissing contents. Some whack job threatens me, and you act like it's no big deal and I'm being paranoid. Why? Because there aren't nut cases out there, or because I'm a "critic" of the church? At least you have the good sense to agree at this point that some people are indeed dangerous.

Seriously, we don't have to be enemies, smac. Once upon a time we had a pleasant correspondence. Now I'm a presumptuous, paranoid "venter" because I stated the obvious: some people are dangerous, and it's wise to be careful.

Who's smac?

[_harmony]

I hate these kinds of pissing contents. Some whack job threatens me, and you act like it's no big deal and I'm being paranoid. Why? Because there aren't nut cases out there, or because I'm a "critic" of the church? At least you have the good sense to agree at this point that some people are indeed dangerous.

Seriously, we don't have to be enemies, smac. Once upon a time we had a pleasant correspondence. Now I'm a presumptuous, paranoid "venter" because I stated the obvious: some people are dangerous, and it's wise to be careful.

Who's smac?

If Runtu is correct, Smac = maklelan. Judging by his posts, I'm not sure Runtu's right, although he may be. Smac's always had a smart-alecky tone, that maklelan doesn't usually have. Smac's a poster from FAIR/MAD, a smart guy, very legal-minded, not surprising since he's a newly minted lawyer in Provo. It seems to me like he's in the prosecutor's office there. Maklelan sounds like he's still in grad school. Somehow I thought he was studying for some sort of degree in religion. I don't remember if Smac is a BIC, but maklelan is a convert. Smac and Confidential Informant (whose former name I've forgotten) carry the legal ball over on MAD for any questions about the law and church history.

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

That's just it. I wasn't flying under the radar. My name is fairly well known, since I've been around here a long time (I think just about as long as Pahoran has), and my wife is aware of everything I do. But when complete strangers start talking about my family, then I get nervous. Who knows what these people are capable of doing?

Giving horrible wedding presents and making disgusting funeral potatoes. That's about it. You say that as if LDS people have some kind of secret power over you, or are at least capable of more than any other normal person on the planet.

Just how do you know this? I've had people threaten me with bodily harm in the past. Are you suggesting that somehow I should just believe that perfect strangers are incapable of harming my family because they're nominally LDS? Color me jaded, but I'm not ready to risk my family's safety on the thought that all Mormons are harmless. When you've had the kind of hatred spewed at you that I have, you can tell me it's OK to let these people near my family.

They're not more or less capable of anything than anyone else. The problem is that you assume that my correspondents were "normal people." I'm not going to assume that.

Runtu
For what it is worth....I believe you and I have been a victim myself.......no not all Mormons are harmless......trust me I have paid a dear price for trusting Mormons.....My family was almost lost because we trusted Mormons......

Protect your family at all costs....never assume they are safe.....

[_guy sajer]

I wonder how the students feel when they go to archaelogy or history class and get a completely different story to what they just learned in religion class. Anyone get a mixed message at BYU between religion and archaeology/history/anthropology/etc class?

Bond

Well, they gutted the Sociol Sciences dept a few years ago, from what a friend of mine said.

I think most people are able to continue with their disconnect and keep compartmentalizing what they learn in class. And why would anyone go to BYU to get a degree in a social science anyway? They're much better known for their engineering and computer departments.

Hi Harmony. (I've been away for a while, but this seems as good a place to jump in as any.) We may have been through this before, but your friend, in my experience, is wrong. BYU has some reasonably good social science programs. Econ is pretty good, as is Poly Sci. BYU is also known for a top notch accounting program and the MBA program is getting lots of kudos lately. You can get a good soc science experience at BYU, if you ignore all the indoctrination, subtle and unsubtle.

I concede that a private university has more leeway than a public one. This stops short, however, of a carte blanche to do whatever it wants, whether one invokes a legal or ethical standard. However, requiring religion classes falls way short of stepping over that line.

I am surprised that one could take years of religion at BYU and never hear a testimony. Many of the religion classes are taught by faculty from other Depts., which, I would guess, dilutes their scholarly content somewhat. The religion professors I had (with one exception) were glorified seminary teachers. One took me aside and warned me that I asked too many questions. I guess he was right. Actually, the problem was that I did not ask too many questions, it was that there were not enough good answers.