Questions about BYU

[_guy sajer]

As a general comment, it is worth noting that BYU has undergone some significant changes over the last decade or so. Around early 1990s and continuing at the time I left, a large number of senior faculty were retiring. These were faculty hired under a different set of expectations regarding scholarly work. They were generally not under much pressure to publish and as a result, did not publish much. They were generally good faculty who did their job, were faithful to the mission of the school, but who were not active researchers. (by the way, DCP would be included among this group, which perhaps explains his woeful lack of original scholarly output.)

Coinciding with this, BYU decided it wanted to improve its academic stature, so as the older faculty retired, they were replaced by new faculty, largely fresh out of their Ph.D. programs who were given the mandate that they needed to publish to keep their jobs. These are bright, energetic, amibitious, and capable faculty, many of whom have established admirable scholarly reputations and have published in good journals. (My experience is limited to the social sciences, but I assume a similar thing happened in the physical sciences and humanities.) I was among one of the earlier waves to be hired under this new regime. I recall eating at the Sky Room shortly after being hired in 1991 and being told by the Dean, "We like you and we want you to succeed, but if you do not publish, we will not keep you here." Over the years, I have seen the quality of Marriott School faculty improve by quantum leaps, which probably has helped contribute to its rise in the ratings. There are a large number of Mormon Ph.D.'s out there getting degrees from good universities. They want to succeed, they want to publish, and if BYU wants them (and it does), it has to provide them the environment in which they can succeed.

A result of all this is, I think, a significant upgrading in BYU's academic positioning. It is a good university with many good faculty and many brilliant students. This is not your father's BYU anymore.

BYU has top notch faculty and students in many respects, but a chicken s*** administration. The real mystery is why the faculty and students are so docile in letting the admin treat them like kindergartners.

Now, if only it could dispense with the damned indoctrination and actually start treating its students and faculty like the adults they are.

[_guy sajer]

But deriving from the fact that we got married at BYU the idea that our intentions were to do so is fallacious. Mormons get married relatively young, and young people are often at college. This doesn't mean their intentions of going to BYU are to get married.

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but ....

For years my mother used to say that she encouraged all her children to attend BYU because she wanted us "to find a nice LDS spouse." And it worked, in most cases. I met my wife there, but we did not marry until after graduation, so I don't technically count. I certainly never went there intending to find a wife (even though I did), but I know of many students who did, and some were disappointed if they graduated without finding a spouse. I even know of several who delayed graduation, or stayed at BYU to do graduate work, with the primary purpose being to find a spouse before they had to go out in 'the real world.'

I think it is fair to say that "most" students who go to BYU are motivated by a variety of reasons, but certainly, social reasons are paramount among them. Active Mormons tend toward tribalism and like to associate with other members of the tribe who share the same values, outlook, beliefs, etc. BYU is a good university (but not a "top tier" one) but so are many state and private universities that are often less expensive and/or offer better academic programs or experiences than BYU. Sure, academcis matter, sometimes the most, but so do social factors, sometimes the most. I am also certain that a non-trivial number of students go there to find a spouse. To deny these social factors strikes me as a bit silly, but the true extent to which they motivate students in unknown. I think, however, that on balance, they weigh quite heavily, more heavily than is the case otherwise.

Among the faculty, many choose BYU for social reasons as well. BYU generally offers less pay than comprable private and state universities and often less research support and heavier teaching loads. The deisre to mingle with members of the tribe or to contribute to the building of the kingdom are important factors motivating people to join the faculty there.

[_Yoda]

Dan G has been a Nazi about sock puppets...

Perhaps he should invoke their misapplication of Godwin's idea and ban himself?

LOL! I love it!

[_Rollo Tomasi]

I stumbled upon a link to it yesterday, so here I am.

Welcome, Guy! Great to see you again, my old friend.

[Anonymous]

Oh, thanks for the update harmony (if smac is mak). Can't tell who's who or who isn't who they appear to be without a program. Someday they're going to have to dump all these boards together so people will know who they're talking or not talking to.

Bond

Does it really matter?

Nah. As long as the Patriots don't win another Super Bowl.

By the way, how did this thread get turned in this direction? I seem to recall getting an answer about 5 pages back.

B

[_harmony]

Among the faculty, many choose BYU for social reasons as well. BYU generally offers less pay than comprable private and state universities and often less research support and heavier teaching loads. The deisre to mingle with members of the tribe or to contribute to the building of the kingdom are important factors motivating people to join the faculty there.

I have a friend who is on the faculty at BYU-Idaho. He's pretty well known in his field, and was recruited from a prestigious California university. He took a pay cut to go Rexburg, but "building the kingdom" was more important than salary to him. His wife took the pay cut in stride because her father taught at Ricks and she considered it part of life to take a pay cut in order to teach at a church school.

[_guy sajer]

Among the faculty, many choose BYU for social reasons as well. BYU generally offers less pay than comprable private and state universities and often less research support and heavier teaching loads. The deisre to mingle with members of the tribe or to contribute to the building of the kingdom are important factors motivating people to join the faculty there.

I have a friend who is on the faculty at BYU-Idaho. He's pretty well known in his field, and was recruited from a prestigious California university. He took a pay cut to go Rexburg, but "building the kingdom" was more important than salary to him. His wife took the pay cut in stride because her father taught at Ricks and she considered it part of life to take a pay cut in order to teach at a church school.

BYU-Idaho--Where brain cells go to die. I wonder if Kim Clark is regretting his decion to leave Harvard B-School (he was Dean) to take over up in Rexburg.

Note that my comments regarding quality of faculty apply to BYU-Provo. It is hard to imagine any Ph.D. with amibition settling for BYU-Idaho. My guess is heavy teaching loads, little research support, stifling suppression of thought and dissent, large contingent of low quality students, and heavy indocrination. Add to that you gotta live in Rexburg--a dump of a town in the middle of nowhere (sorry to any Rexburg homers out there).

[_guy sajer]

I stumbled upon a link to it yesterday, so here I am.

Welcome, Guy! Great to see you again, my old friend.

Great to see you again Rollo. I'm glad I found you, although my productivity will probably suffer.

[_harmony]

Among the faculty, many choose BYU for social reasons as well. BYU generally offers less pay than comprable private and state universities and often less research support and heavier teaching loads. The deisre to mingle with members of the tribe or to contribute to the building of the kingdom are important factors motivating people to join the faculty there.

I have a friend who is on the faculty at BYU-Idaho. He's pretty well known in his field, and was recruited from a prestigious California university. He took a pay cut to go Rexburg, but "building the kingdom" was more important than salary to him. His wife took the pay cut in stride because her father taught at Ricks and she considered it part of life to take a pay cut in order to teach at a church school.

BYU-Idaho--Where brain cells go to die. I wonder if Kim Clark is regretting his decion to leave Harvard B-School (he was Dean) to take over up in Rexburg.

Note that my comments regarding quality of faculty apply to BYU-Provo. It is hard to imagine any Ph.D. with amibition settling for BYU-Idaho. My guess is heavy teaching loads, little research support, stifling suppression of thought and dissent, large contingent of low quality students, and heavy indocrination. Add to that you gotta live in Rexburg--a dump of a town in the middle of nowhere (sorry to any Rexburg homers out there).

He moved there from San Luis Obispo, CA. I'm still scratching my head over that one.

[_Mercury]

Oh, thanks for the update harmony (if smac is mak). Can't tell who's who or who isn't who they appear to be without a program. Someday they're going to have to dump all these boards together so people will know who they're talking or not talking to.

Bond

Does it really matter?

To those who are fammiliar with someone and their tactics? Yes.