"Spiritual Infidelity"?????

[_truth dancer]

EXACTLY Jason...

I can see it now. Dad does not believe. Mom dumps dad. Dad has kids for the weekend. Dad does not allow them to go to Church and Dad spends a lot of time putting the Church down and maybe mom as well for dumping him over the Church.

I fail to see the logic of divorcing a non-believing spouse so the kids will remain believers (or whatever the argument is here).

I mean which is the more mature, loving adult... the one who expands his/her beliefs and remains loving, committed, responsible, dependable, involved, willing to learn and grow with differences?... or the parent who can't handle differences who breaks up a family for their own selfish reasons? Which parent seems the one with more integrity, care, concern, and decency?

Like children won't see the selfish parent for what he/she is... OMG how ridiculous!

~dancer~

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

i never thought of it that way..an excuse to dump a spouse...but that makes sense to me..these days no one understands what commitment means

[_Mercury]

I can see it now. Dad does not believe. Mom dumps dad. Dad has kids for the weekend. Dad does not allow them to go to Church and Dad spends a lot of time putting the Church down and maybe mom as well for dumping him over the Church.

Very true. As one of these children separated and isolated from the unbelieving parent I have to say I would be told that my mother was a very bad person because of X, Y and Z. Z, the most underlined point made was that my mother was not Mormon any longer, and Mormons are good people. I could write a book about the s*** my father and Mormon family (a portion of my fathers family) told me concerning why they were superior to my mother and her "ways".

Cultural Isolation is alive and well in the marginalized Mormons. This process in single member families is a point not examined enough. The exmormon father (such as myself) is told what the children will be doing as far as religious indoctrination.

We are told from Nursery that Jesus is love. How sick a connection can there be? Jesus is not love. Family is love. Jesus, your temple recommend and Joseph Smiths "spiritually placed" penis is love.

"No nursery for the child because you want me to ask the bishop for a background check on any males in Nursery? Why do you not trust the bishops ability to direct? "

"you can't teach the children about Mormonism in any fashion. The children are going to primary. If you reject this you don't support me.".

Both of these are direct quotes from my wife. I am met with no leeway to express myself and my lack of faith to the children even though I love them just as much, am paying for everything they use, eat, do etc. The animosity and anger I have against Mormonism is especially pertinent while discussing issues like this.

[_beastie]

Bsix is resurrects this topic every now and then. I think this is the third time I've seen him brought it up. I often wonder why he thinks about it that much. He's not in a mixed marriage, is he?

The thought of a family being torn apart over one person's loss of faith is so sad. Anyone who would divorce a decent spouse over a legitimate difference of opinion is plain nuts. (when kids are involved) I wasn't exaggerating when I said I know women who divorced cheating husbands only to deeply regret it later, when they found out how hard it is to be a single mother, and how much it affected their kids.

[_Gazelam]

From The Pearl of Great Price, Moses 8:19-22

19 And the Lord ordained Noah after his own order, and commanded him that he should go forth and declare his Gospel unto the children of men, even as it was given unto Enoch.
20 And it came to pass that Noah called upon the children of men that they should repent; but they hearkened not unto his words;
21 And also, after that they had heard him, they came up before him, saying: Behold, we are the sons of God; have we not taken unto ourselves the daughters of men? And are we not eating and drinking, and marrying and giving in marriage? And our wives bear unto us children, and the same are mighty men, which are like unto men of old, men of great renown. And they hearkened not unto the words of Noah.
22 And God saw that the wickedness of men had become great in the earth; and every man was lifted up in the imagination of the thoughts of his heart, being only evil continually.

So lets see what brought on the Great Flood that covered the Earth. The Sons of God (Priesthood holders) married the daughters of men (non-members) and the children were allowed to hear the teachings of the mothers (I have no doubt this worked both ways, daughters of God marrying outside the church also) and the children were brought up in false beliefs, not being baptised, not attending the temple. After how many generations do you think things reached the point of saturation where repentance was not possible?

This pattern has not changed. Its being played out right here in the lives of the small group posting here on these boards.

Gaz

[_truth dancer]

Ohh Gaz, my friend,

Did you actually read what you wrote?

I'm REALLY hoping not cause this sort of thinking is dangerous in my opinion. I mean this very seriously.

You seem to be implying that if a parent does not believe in Joseph Smith, then they should not be in the child's life or the child will, what? Burn in hell? Not make it to the CKHL? Generations will perish? You do know what the common belief of the day was toward non-believers ala Moses right?

If a couple divorces BOTH parents remain in the child's life. BOTH parents will be involved. Unless one spouse kills the non-believing spouse (Moses would certainly approve), BOTH parents are still involved parents.

Do you undestand this?

Divorcing a spouse doesn't all of a sudden mean children will not be exposed to teachings other than those from Joseph Smith. Why does anyone think a divorce all of a sudden means the non-believing spouse will not be in the child's life? This is such an odd idea to me.

Divorcing a non-believing spouse (because of disbelief) is a selfish excuse to get rid of a partner and has NOTHING whatsoever to do with what is in the best interest of the children.

Children will be MORE negative toward the church, MORE negative toward the believing parent, MORE apt to go another way if the believing parent breaks up a family.

And... children suffer with divorce (unless of course the dynamics of the home are abusive).

For a church who claims to be all about family, the idea of breaking up a family due to differences of beliefs just astounds me to no end.

I seriously wonder what is going on in the minds who would supports such a notion. I have a pretty good idea but I'll save my judgments for another day! LOL!

~dancer~

[_truth dancer]

A couple sits down with their marriage therapist...

Woman: I want a divorce.

Therapist: Why?

Woman: My husband doesn't believe in Joseph Smith. He thinks he lied.

Therapist: Did Joseph Smith ever lie?

Woman: Well yes but not about the golden plates.

Therapist: Ohhh so you no longer want to be with your husband because he believes Joseph Smith lied about more things that you do?

Woman: Yes... he will be a bad influence on my children because he doesn't believe Joseph Smith was honest about finding the golden plates and seeing angels.

Therapist: So you think, if you divorce your husband (because he thinks Joseph Smith lied about more things than you do), your children will be better off?

Woman: Yes of course. If I get a divorce he can't influence my children to not believe Joseph Smith lied about the golden plates.

Therapist: Do you plan on killing your husband after you get a divorce?

Woman: No!

Therapist: Then why do you think your husband will not be involved with your children?

Woman: Well, I have my eternal welfare to consider here.

Therapist: What will happen to your eternal welfare if your husband doesn't believe in Joseph Smith and you remain married?

Woman: Well, I will be a polygamous wife in the next life.

Therapist: What wil happen to your eternal welfare if your husband doesn't believe in Joseph Smith and you divorce and do not remarry?

Woman: Well, I will be a polygamous wife in the next life.

Therapist: Ohhhh so you are planning on getting married again?

Woman: Ummm, well, ummm, I think, well, I would like, well, ummm....

:-)

~dancer~

[_Yoda]

LOL! Nice roleplay, TD! ;)

To Gaz's point....

I do think that marriages have a better chance of survival if you are both members of the same faith, particularly in the LDS community.

Let's face it. Being LDS is as much of a culture as it is a religion. There are obstacles that are difficult when you have one believing parent and one who is not.

I think that it does make sense to initially marry someone of the same faith. However, after you're married, if things change, and, as Beastie says, you have children involved, then there is more than just the couple to consider.

Unless there is an abusive situation, both parents will always have an influence on the children's lives. I still think that there will be a lot more resentment toward the Church from the kids if a divorce ensues over a difference of religious beliefs.

[_guy sajer]

From The Pearl of Great Price, Moses 8:19-22

19 And the Lord ordained Noah after his own order, and commanded him that he should go forth and declare his Gospel unto the children of men, even as it was given unto Enoch.
20 And it came to pass that Noah called upon the children of men that they should repent; but they hearkened not unto his words;
21 And also, after that they had heard him, they came up before him, saying: Behold, we are the sons of God; have we not taken unto ourselves the daughters of men? And are we not eating and drinking, and marrying and giving in marriage? And our wives bear unto us children, and the same are mighty men, which are like unto men of old, men of great renown. And they hearkened not unto the words of Noah.
22 And God saw that the wickedness of men had become great in the earth; and every man was lifted up in the imagination of the thoughts of his heart, being only evil continually.

So lets see what brought on the Great Flood that covered the Earth. The Sons of God (Priesthood holders) married the daughters of men (non-members) and the children were allowed to hear the teachings of the mothers (I have no doubt this worked both ways, daughters of God marrying outside the church also) and the children were brought up in false beliefs, not being baptised, not attending the temple. After how many generations do you think things reached the point of saturation where repentance was not possible?

This pattern has not changed. Its being played out right here in the lives of the small group posting here on these boards.

Gaz

So, Gaz, will God kill us too for our unbelief, like he did those in Noah's time? Let's see, God kills millions of people, including innocent children (not that killing anyone for lack of belief is justifiable--but there's the whole "man will be punished for his own sins" thing to take into account), and we're the ones who have to repent?

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to answer the question posed as to whether my wife should divorce me, because I share my lack of belief in Mormonism with my children.

[_harmony]

From The Pearl of Great Price, Moses 8:19-22

19 And the Lord ordained Noah after his own order, and commanded him that he should go forth and declare his Gospel unto the children of men, even as it was given unto Enoch.
20 And it came to pass that Noah called upon the children of men that they should repent; but they hearkened not unto his words;
21 And also, after that they had heard him, they came up before him, saying: Behold, we are the sons of God; have we not taken unto ourselves the daughters of men? And are we not eating and drinking, and marrying and giving in marriage? And our wives bear unto us children, and the same are mighty men, which are like unto men of old, men of great renown. And they hearkened not unto the words of Noah.
22 And God saw that the wickedness of men had become great in the earth; and every man was lifted up in the imagination of the thoughts of his heart, being only evil continually.

So lets see what brought on the Great Flood that covered the Earth. The Sons of God (Priesthood holders) married the daughters of men (non-members) and the children were allowed to hear the teachings of the mothers (I have no doubt this worked both ways, daughters of God marrying outside the church also) and the children were brought up in false beliefs, not being baptised, not attending the temple. After how many generations do you think things reached the point of saturation where repentance was not possible?

This pattern has not changed. Its being played out right here in the lives of the small group posting here on these boards.

Gaz

So, Gaz, will God kill us too for our unbelief, like he did those in Noah's time? Let's see, God kills millions of people, including innocent children (not that killing anyone for lack of belief is justifiable--but there's the whole "man will be punished for his own sins" thing to take into account), and we're the ones who have to repent?

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to answer the question posed as to whether my wife should divorce me, because I share my lack of belief in Mormonism with my children.

God is still killing people, Guy. You just don't know what you're seeing. The tsunami? That was from God, because the world is so wicked. The extraordinary hurricane season last year? That was from God, because the USA is so wicked. AIDS? From God, because Africa is so wicked.

You name the natural disaster or the plague, and sure as God made little green apples, someone's gonna blame it/them on God. Heaven forbid that we take responsibility for our own actions. No! No! No! It's all God's fault.