Love, Marriage, Intimacy...

[_Gazelam]

way to stay on topic there.

[_truth dancer]

Ummm Mok, my friend...

Sometimes when you look around at all the housework, wouldn't it be nice to have a couple of wives? I imagine even single women could appreciate this.

Are you suggesting wife=slave?

No, you would never think such a thing. Of course not... no one equates housework with a wife. Nope. What am I thinking? Silly me! What could possible give anyone such an idea? LOL!

;-)

~dancer~

[_Rollo Tomasi]

In the biography recently written on Bruce R. McConkie, there is a whole section devoted to finding a balance. As busy as a person can be in the church, imagine that as an Apostle. That was something he worked on, manageing time between responsibilities and family.

I found those recollections by his son very sad. Here are some quotes from Joseph Fielding McConkie's The Bruce R. McConkie Story: Reflections of a Son that I found particularly heartbreaking:

A few years ago, I was invited to speak in a sacrament meeting devoted to paying tribute to fathers. Each speaker who preceded me described how his father had taught him to catch a baseball, ride a horse, hunt deer, or change the oil in a car. As I listened to them, I realized that I had no such stories to tell. My father never threw a ball to me, never took me hunting or camping, nor did he have any idea how to change the oil in a car. We didn't even go to church together because he was gone virtually every Sunday on conference assignments. He was not present when I received any of the offices in the Aaronic Priesthood nor any award in Scouting. He did not teach me how to drive nor how to tie a tie, nor was he around when I learned, by rather painful experience, how to shave. He never took me to a baseball or basketball game, nor did we ever go to a movie together. In short, we simply were not a recreationally minded family.

Among the other things he did not teach us was patience. When we worked with him in the yard or on some home improvement project, he expected us to read his mind or to be able to quickly find things that were never where they were supposed to be. Such gifts are rarely found in children or any other conscripted labor. They did not manifest themselves in his children, nor have I learned that any trace of them has been found in his grandchildren.

What, then, did we do together? We dug a root cellar and a septic tank, we painted the house and shingled the roof, we built shelves, and we tiled the basement floor. When he came home in the evening and I wasn't working, the first thing he would say was, "Mother, isn't there something Joseph can be doing?" He was gone so much that it was my mother who taught me how to plant a garden, pull weeds, and irrigate. Yet, of my father it must be said he was simply fearless where sweat and calluses were concerned, particularly if they were mine.

So it was that when it became my turn in that sacrament meeting to speak of lessons learned and experiences shared with my father, my memories were confined to administering to the sick, listening to him instruct priesthood leaders when he took me with him to his Saturday meetings, hearing the gospel taught with power and clarity when he fulfilled all the promises to speak he had made at Christmastime, listening to remarkable gospel conversations that he had with his father-in-law, Joseph Fielding Smith, and his own father, Oscar W. McConkie, and, of course, with the passing of years, sharing in the same kind of conversations with him. In it all, I came to realize that the Lord has his own system of compensation, and that as a kid growing up, maybe I hadn't missed out on too much that mattered after all.

[_Who Knows]

If there are three people in a marriage - you, your spouse, and God... and God has to come first...

How does that happen? I thought the woman should always come first - it's much easier for the guys.

I know, I know - dirty mind...

[_harmony]

way to stay on topic there.

ROTFL. Down the rabbit hole! Follow the rabbit! Follow the money! Open the @#$% books!

[_asbestosman]

I married my wife for her mind, not her body (and I hope she'll say the same of me). I think beauty is skin deep. I wasn't not gonna fall for someone just because she had a pretty face and a nice figure. Since I married her for her mind, what if she changes her mind?

What does it really mean to intimately love someone? Would you stop loving someone because she got in a terrible accident and is ugly? Does that imply that love comes more from personaility? Would you stop loving someone because she was in an accident and suffered brain dammage? What does that imply? Would you stop loving someone if you saw her change personality from loving the same activities you do (sci-fi movies, swimming, jogging, eating out, or whatever) and actually started hating them? What if the person went from loving your other friends to hating them? How about from loving others in your family to hate?

What if the person you lovee suddenly commited a crime? What if the crime is a felony? What if it involved abusing adults? What if it involved abusing children? What if it involved abusing you?

[_Jason Bourne]

When I hear nonsense like people breaking up a family, harming children, and destorying lives because of differing beliefs I have to wonder what is important... a selfish need to become a God, or one's family.

I think the thread that started this from that other board is not what the Church would promote.

When I hear men praise polygamy and look foward to the day, I have to wonder how deeply they loves their wives.

How often do you hear this? When I ask men about this most say that one wife is all they want.

When I hear LDS women state they would rather be with women as sister wives than have a deep emotional connection with their husband, it makes me question LDS marriage.

Same as above. I know maybe one woman that I have asked about this that likes the idea.

In sum, in my opinion, the bond between a husband and a wife, the amazing loving emotional intimacy that can exist is unlike any other in the known universe. And yet, church attendance and belief in Joseph Smith seems to Trump it for some believers.

For some yes. I recall a woman whose husband had gone a bit bonkers emotinally and had lost his belief in the Church. He was the one who initially wanted out. But the wife, when discussing this with a woman whose husband was in a temple presidency said at one point "Well I really should stay married because of the covenant I made in the temple." The other woman replied "You should stay because you love him. You do love him don't you? Can you imagine how awful he must feel if you stay just because of a covenant?"

I thought the comment was piercingly on the mark.

[_asbestosman]

When I hear nonsense like people breaking up a family, harming children, and destorying lives because of differing beliefs I have to wonder what is important... a selfish need to become a God, or one's family.

Which family is most important: the temporal, eartly one or the Heavenly one with our Heavenly Father?

Even though I imagine I would answer that question differently than many here, I do not see any pressing reason to divorce someone over a loss of faith. It certainly won't protect children who will still be exposed to the apostate parent. It will dammage children to go through a divorce. Also there is no need to divorce over fear of not becoming a God. God isn't going to punish you if you did your best to find a spouse but your spouse falls away.

On the other hand, for a marriage without children, maybe divorce is the right decision. A difference in religion doesn't necessarily mean one can't intimately connect with the other person, but sometimes it may be too much. Breaking up that marriage may be better than sticking with it and bringing children into a marriage that is strained by such a thing. I hear people say that belief is not voluntary. What about intimate love? If it is not voluntary, should one continue to go through the motions?

[_truth dancer]

Hey Jason... I guess you haven't read the FAIR/Mad board much! LOL! Actually I haven't read the board lately but everytime the subject came up there was always a group of men who certainly were hoping for the day... and a few women who seem to be glad to not have to have their husbands around. :-( Virtually every woman I have heard who is OK with polygamy for themselves has a very unusual idea of marriage and men.

I have LONG said... the idea of folks staying married because it was their duty, or because they made a promise, or because it is the rule of the church was very degrading. I can't think of much worse than to think someone is married to someone because they feel they have to remain married. Ahhhhh how horrible to think that is the reason for marriage.


~dancer~

[_truth dancer]

Hey Asbestos man...

Your post speaks directly to my point.

It seems some believers don't much care for their spouse but care much more about an imaginary family in some future life.

Their own earthly spouse and children takes a big back step to their own glory and future power.

I find it disheartening to say the least.

~dancer~

Just to be clear...
I'm not saying you don't care about your family... I'm saying anyone who could just up and leave their spouse, break up a family, remove the infidel so they can become a God speaks to my point. Their dream of Godhood in the next life is more important than the love of their own children and spouse. It baffles my mind.