Gazelam wrote:If you notice in my posts I stated that the condition I place would be if the non-member were antagonistic to the church. If they arent a member and are pasive, then of coarce the marriage should stay together. In many cases the faithful member may eventually convert the spouse through example. I heard Matthew Cowley in a talk state that the non-member spouse should not be preached to, unless they ask.
In regards to the guy who broke up his marriage, I don't know the details, but it sounds on the surface pretty reprehensible. Just because someone is married in the temple does not mean that the marriage was sealed by the spirit.
Gaz
Gas, for the third time, even if the spouse who does not believe is mouthy about it and they divorce, the spouse will still have access to the kids and can preach agains the Church. So how does divorce solve anything there?
I have noticed a concerted effort by some church leaders to encourage marriage.
I think it is more some BELIEVERS who seem to equate non-belief with a Satan follower... an infidel who must be removed and not allowed to interact with believers! (smile)!
I am just floored when I read of believers who contemplate divorce because their spouse believes differently. I just can't get over how strange this is (if one loves their spouse that is).
I have noticed a concerted effort by some church leaders to encourage marriage.
I think it is more some BELIEVERS who seem to equate non-belief with a Satan follower... an infidel who must be removed and not allowed to interact with believers! (smile)!
I am just floored when I read of believers who contemplate divorce because their spouse believes differently. I just can't get over how strange this is (if one loves their spouse that is).
~dancer~
Well, that's the kicker, isn't it? If one loves a nonbeliever, one loves a Satan follower, according to some of our believers.
hi TD. you said: Like people just suddenly decide to stop believing. What nonsense. I have yet to hear one person suggest they choose to stop believing.
MG: I think it is a choice. It is/was for me. To believe, that is. I could choose to stop believing too. I have, off and on over a period of years. Now you've heard from one!
Can you choose to believe the sun is made out of green jello? Can you choose to believe the earth is flat? Can you choose to believe your children do not exist? Or that the flying speghetti monster controls the world?
When someone can honestly say they can completely choose to believe the moon is made of cheese or that the earth is only one square mile of flat earth, then I will agree belief is a choice!
hi TD. you said: Can you choose to believe the sun is made out of green jello?
MG: no
TD: Can you choose to believe the earth is flat?
MG: no
TD: Can you choose to believe your children do not exist?
MG: no
TD: Or that the flying speghetti monster controls the world?
MG: no
TD: When someone can honestly say they can completely choose to believe the moon is made of cheese or that the earth is only one square mile of flat earth, then I will agree belief is a choice!
MG: but the moon is not made of cheese, and the earth is not flat, and a spaghetti monster does not control the world. What does that have to having belief in God and/or the restoration story, which is pretty much the topic of conversation around these boards?
My point is, belief is much more complicated than a simple (or complex) choice.
How do you know a speghetti monster doesn't control the world? How do you know there isn't a billion purple fairies telling your brain how to behave? How do you know there aren't some aliens creating a pretend world for us and we are just puppets? How do you know wonder woman isn't a real person from Atlantica?
Your answers are the same reasons others do not believe Joseph Smith saw a Caucasian, elderly advanced primate claiming to be God who gave the powers of the universe to him.
There are reasons we do not believe certain things, and reasons we do. You don't just choose something to believe and accept it.
Our brain, our neurology are hardwired for belief. Belief is much more complex than choice.
hi TD. you said: My point is, belief is much more complicated than a simple (or complex) choice.
MG: yes it can be.
TD: How do you know a speghetti monster doesn't control the world?
MG: group consensus...worldwide. Except for those that are unreasonable and/or nutcases.
TD: How do you know there isn't a billion purple fairies telling your brain how to behave?
MG: neuroscience.
TD: How do you know there aren't some aliens creating a pretend world for us and we are just puppets?
MG: group consensus...worldwide. Except for those that are unreasonable and/or nutcases.
TD: How do you know wonder woman isn't a real person from Atlantica?
MG: group consensus...worldwide. Except for those that are unreasonable and/or nutcases.
TD: Your answers are the same reasons others do not believe Joseph Smith saw a Caucasian, elderly advanced primate claiming to be God who gave the powers of the universe to him.
MG: but there is a large group consensus (many members of the LDS church...that are reasonable, thinking, intelligent primates...and not nutcases) that these things are true (advanced primate,huh? <g>)
TD: There are reasons we do not believe certain things, and reasons we do. You don't just choose something to believe and accept it.
MG: there is no difference between that and choosing something not to believe in. Have you not chosen something not to believe in?
TD: Our brain, our neurology are hardwired for belief.
MG: the research has been done which shows this to be the case. Has there been research done to demonstrate that there may be regions of the brain that may be hardwired for doubt and unbelief in a personal God? I haven't seen that particular research put out there yet in Newsweek magazine or anywhere else...not saying that it may be there somewhere...but it hasn't come out front in any the popular media outlets that I know of. I think it would be an interesting path of research to take! There sure seem to be alot of people that one could say are hardwired to believe that this is the case. God is a spirit/cosmic force...and such. That man could be created in the image of God...never!! You would agree that many believe this?
TD: Belief is much more complex than choice.
MG: belief may become complex, yes. But rational choices can be made as a result of looking at and working along with and through the complexity.