Suggestions Please

[_Mister Scratch]

Hi, Wade. Just wanted to let you know that I hereby volunteer to help out with your new website. I will gladly proffer advice, help with administrative duties, and so forth. I would say that I'm qualified because I once read a Dr. Laura book. I also have a bit of educational background in both psychology and sociology, for what it's worth. So: what do you say? Are you willing to take me on board?

While your reading and educational background may be of some help, it is more important that you ascribe to and adhere to the Guiding Principles. If you do, then you are welcome both as a facilitator and a participant.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade, what are you talking about? I have *always* been a shining example of those Guiding Principles in action! Now, would you care to sign on the dotted line here in bloo... er, I mean ink?

[_moksha]

Wade, Iamlistening.org sounds like a wonderful name, although I am surprised the NSA has not already registered it.

[_Gazelam]

Dancer,
My disdain is that I can't in any way imagine going in to someone and bitching and moaning about personal problems and issues. It's like calling on the Elders quarum to have them help you move. Maybe If your a single mom, but a grown man with sons? Its the same thing in my opinion, clean up after yourself. don't call me with your non-sence, and I wont call you. If theres a real issue that's one thing, but non-sence is non-sence.

And you know what the end result of all these meeting and bitch sessions is? Suck it up, get over it, and carry on with your life. In every case. No reboot, no do over, no second quarter in the machine. The caravan rolls on.


Wade,
I am at a new job and was paired up with another Mormon. I wqs talking to him about this thread, and it turns out that hes in one of these church sponsered counceling programs. He says that they have done him alot of good, and that he thinks that they have helped him alot. I wouldent have guessed since to me he has really got his act together. He says its the same type of thing where the blame for his problems (former problems) is squarely on his shoulders and that its all about choices.

I guess if it works for him, then there ya go.

Gaz

[_Jersey Girl]

Just quickly....

Mormon Directions

Latter-day Guiding Principles

Latter-day Light and Guiding Principles

Latter-day Guiding Principles for Inner Peace

Mormon Directions and Guiding Principles

Mormon Journey

Do you like any of those?

I think they are all excellent suggestions. They each capture at least some of the key essence of what my board will be about.

I wonder, though, if those titles might be interpreted as the board being exclusively for LDS, rather than also for former members? Who knows?

Anyway, as I was pondering your suggetions last night, I was struck by this title: "I'm Listening" (I got this phrase from the Frazer TV show. It is the lead-in that Dr. Crane uses when speaking with each caller.) While it doesn't capture the essence of what the board is about (certainly not like your great suggestions), it is generic and I think somewhat appealing. It also highlights an important factor that I see as too often under-utilized on all sides in online discussion. People seem to me to be more intent on "saying" rather than "hearing".

Besides, I checked the domain registry, and iamlistening.org is still available.

What do you think?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade,

It seems to me that the name of your future board has got to be something easily searchable on the internet. That's why I chose titles with "Mormon" or "Latter-day" in them. Do you think using the term "Latter-day" is misleading in some theological way? It might be. I also tried to keep in mind the nautical descriptors that you use in reference to what you'd like the board to be about.

What about...

Mormon Pathways
Mormon Pathways for Healing
Mormon Pathways and Guiding Principles

I really think that if Mormonism is a kind of centerpiece, you need to have some sort of easily recognizable LDS reference in there so that people can google it up. Gosh, I was just looking at that first list and I really like "Latter-day Light". I'm usually good at dreaming up titles like that, I will think about it further.

You want to steal from FRAZIER????? May it rain a thousand buckets on you until slugs emerge from the ground of the Emerald City...and may you be out of salt!

Jersey Girl
;-)

[_truth dancer]

Hi Gaz...

My disdain is that I can't in any way imagine going in to someone and bitching and moaning about personal problems and issues. It's like calling on the Elders quarum to have them help you move. Maybe If your a single mom, but a grown man with sons? Its the same thing in my opinion, clean up after yourself. don't call me with your non-sence, and I wont call you. If theres a real issue that's one thing, but non-sence is non-sence.

This is sad.

Seems you feel the only ones for whom it is appropriate to seek help are single moms.

I'm not exactly sure where you got this idea but I find it disturbing and a reason more men do not seek help for some of their difficulties.

The truth is, your attitude is exactly that which will keep unhealthy cycles continuing, keep men from learning, and limit relationships from healing.

Guess what... there are men who can admit they need help. There are men who are willing to grow and learn. There are men who are wanting to improve relationships, overcome addictions, and heal horrible pain. These are the strong men.

It is the less healthy men with ego issues, who can't admit difficulties, who think they need to present this perfect facade, who can't allow anyone to see who they really are, who must deny any problems at all costs so as not to look less than wonderful, who think a real man should just suck it up.

And why you think therapy is about bitching and moaning is beyond me...

I would inivite you to reflect on those great men who have sought and received help.

~dancer~

[_Runtu]

Hi Gaz...

This is sad.

Seems you feel the only ones for whom it is appropriate to seek help are single moms.

I'm not exactly sure where you got this idea but I find it disturbing and a reason more men do not seek help for some of their difficulties.

The truth is, your attitude is exactly that which will keep unhealthy cycles continuing, keep men from learning, and limit relationships from healing.

Guess what... there are men who can admit they need help. There are men who are willing to grow and learn. There are men who are wanting to improve relationships, overcome addictions, and heal horrible pain. These are the strong men.

It is the less healthy men with ego issues, who can't admit difficulties, who think they need to present this perfect facade, who can't allow anyone to see who they really are, who must deny any problems at all costs so as not to look less than wonderful, who think a real man should just suck it up.

And why you think therapy is about bitching and moaning is beyond me...

I would inivite you to reflect on those great men who have sought and received help.

~dancer~

I think the assumption here is that people are capable of dealing with their own problems, much like they're capable of moving without calling the elders quorum. The problem here, of course, is that if we don't really understand what the problem is, we have no idea how to fix it. It would be like trying to load a moving van if you had no arms.

As I said, I went to a therapist at my wife's and bishop's suggestion. I didn't really know what to expect, but he helped me understand my situation and how to deal with it. It wasn't a "bitch and moan" session at all, but rather he served more as a mentor or guide, helping me to work through some issues I had tried hard to ignore.

My guess is that there are a lot of needlessly unhappy people out who won't get help because they think they just need to suck it up. Gaz's hostility to psychotherapy is unusual in its intensity, though, and I wonder where it comes from.

[_Yoda]

My guess is that there are a lot of needlessly unhappy people out who won't get help because they think they just need to suck it up. Gaz's hostility to psychotherapy is unusual in its intensity, though, and I wonder where it comes from.

If I were to take an educated guess, it has to do with the situation with his sister that he mentioned on another thread. I'm not sharing anything he hasn't already shared publicly, so I don't think I'm out of place in re-creating this picture. His sister has repeatedly abused drugs, neglected her kids, and basically left his parents to clean up the mess. I don't know whether or not this sister has received any type of professional therapy. In my estimation, she definitely needs it. However, if she has received professional therapy, it's obvious that it was not the right experience, or a bad experience, because it seems like she has continually repeated her bad behavior. I think that this is where Gaz's resentment is coming from, because he sees the hurt that his parents have gone through in trying to deal with her situation.

And, Gaz...if this is the case, I do understand where you're coming from. The bottom line is that people can't be helped until they decide for themselves that they want to be helped.

That being said, Runtu has a very valid point. Clinical depression is very real. It has been stigmatized, but it is a real illness, or like having a broken bone. If your child broke his arm, you wouldn't just tell him that he needed to "suck it up and it would heal on it's own", would you? No...you would take him to the doctor...have the arm x-rayed, and let the doctor do his job, and re-set the arm and cast it so that it could heal properly. Now, your son would have to take some responsibility in the healing process, and do what the doctor instructed him to do so that he didn't re-damage the break.

Proper professional therapy helps patients be more independent. That is the goal.

And, if Wade's site can help people who need help take some baby steps in the right direction, and gain the professional help they need, then I support his efforts.

[_Runtu]

That being said, Runtu has a very valid point. Clinical depression is very real. It has been stigmatized, but it is a real illness, or like having a broken bone. If your child broke his arm, you wouldn't just tell him that he needed to "suck it up and it would heal on it's own", would you? No...you would take him to the doctor...have the arm x-rayed, and let the doctor do his job, and re-set the arm and cast it so that it could heal properly. Now, your son would have to take some responsibility in the healing process, and do what the doctor instructed him to do so that he didn't re-damage the break.

Yep, that was a big eye opener for me. My doctor explained the biological reasons for clinical depression and how medication could help. I was always wary of "happy pills," but once I started on the medication, I realized that I just felt normal for the first time in a long time. Like you said, we have stigmatized clinical depression to the point where we think it's a personal failing instead of a medical condition. It's not something you can heal yourself any more than you can heal a broken arm by yourself.

Proper professional therapy helps patients be more independent. That is the goal.

And, if Wade's site can help people who need help take some baby steps in the right direction, and gain the professional help they need, then I support his efforts.

I support him, too. Dan Vogel brought up some valid concerns, which I share, but I really would like to think that Wade's heart is in the right place. Of course, I think Wade may have me on ignore these days. lol

[_harmony]

I have grave reservations that this would work. Not only do I think it won't work, but I think it has the potential to do significant harm.

[_Runtu]

I have grave reservations that this would work. Not only do I think it won't work, but I think it has the potential to do significant harm.

My biggest concern is that it seems to rest on the premise that the problem is YOU, so you need to stop harboring any bad feelings toward the church. If that's true, it is a recipe for disaster.