The Mormon God and Conditional Love

[_truth dancer]

Hey Roger...

LOVE your thoughts as always!

At times I wonder if some religions are not actually the most selfish teachings of all....

It is basically ALL about me, me, me... how can I get more blessings, how can I live in heaven, how can I be rewarded, how can I prove obedience, how can I.....

Sort of like Abraham... sure I'll kill my son so I can get to heaven. No problem.

While we most likely do everything for selfish reasons at the deepest level, at least trying to do something for the sake of human dignity, kindness, love, care, compassion seems a step up from being motivated by glory, godhood, worlds without number, and all that power.

Ya know? ;-)

~dancer~

[_Roger Morrison]

Hey Roger...

LOVE your thoughts as always!

At times I wonder if some religions are not actually the most selfish teachings of all....

It is basically ALL about me, me, me... how can I get more blessings, how can I live in heaven, how can I be rewarded, how can I prove obedience, how can I.....

Sort of like Abraham... sure I'll kill my son so I can get to heaven. No problem.

While we most likely do everything for selfish reasons at the deepest level, at least trying to do something for the sake of human dignity, kindness, love, care, compassion seems a step up from being motivated by glory, godhood, worlds without number, and all that power.

Ya know? ;-)

~dancer~

Yea, i know! :-)

But such appeals to some personality types. Unfulfiled? Insecure? Narcissistic? Intro-extro-verted? Authoritarian? Loving? Charitable? God-fearing????? Non of whom can add credibility to Judeo-Christian malfeasance...

Ya know? :-) Roger, with warm regards :-)

[_harmony]

Hey Roger...

LOVE your thoughts as always!

At times I wonder if some religions are not actually the most selfish teachings of all....

It is basically ALL about me, me, me... how can I get more blessings, how can I live in heaven, how can I be rewarded, how can I prove obedience, how can I.....

Sort of like Abraham... sure I'll kill my son so I can get to heaven. No problem.

While we most likely do everything for selfish reasons at the deepest level, at least trying to do something for the sake of human dignity, kindness, love, care, compassion seems a step up from being motivated by glory, godhood, worlds without number, and all that power.

Ya know? ;-)

~dancer~

Yea, i know! :-)

But such appeals to some personality types. Unfulfiled? Insecure? Narcissistic? Intro-extro-verted? Authoritarian? Loving? Charitable? God-fearing????? Non of whom can add credibility to Judeo-Christian malfeasance...

Ya know? :-) Roger, with warm regards :-)

Which means that if the LDS church has the priesthood, the power to do God's work on earth, then they've been misusing it since the beginning. It's not about gathering power; it's about giving power away.

[_Gazelam]

I wonder how many guys get all excited when they get that call to be a Bishop? "Oh boy! A 1:00 am call to come give a blessing, more hospital visits, unemployed families joining the church for the welfare that I get to drive to the store."

Yeh, It's all about the glory and prestiege.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Yeh, It's all about the glory and prestiege.

I'd say it's more about ego. You have God's power in your hands!! You are Gods instrument!!

That's what I call egotistical.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hey Roger...

LOVE your thoughts as always!

At times I wonder if some religions are not actually the most selfish teachings of all....

It is basically ALL about me, me, me... how can I get more blessings, how can I live in heaven, how can I be rewarded, how can I prove obedience, how can I.....

Sort of like Abraham... sure I'll kill my son so I can get to heaven. No problem.

While we most likely do everything for selfish reasons at the deepest level, at least trying to do something for the sake of human dignity, kindness, love, care, compassion seems a step up from being motivated by glory, godhood, worlds without number, and all that power.

Ya know? ;-)

~dancer~

Yea, i know! :-)

But such appeals to some personality types. Unfulfiled? Insecure? Narcissistic? Intro-extro-verted? Authoritarian? Loving? Charitable? God-fearing????? Non of whom can add credibility to Judeo-Christian malfeasance...

Ya know? :-) Roger, with warm regards :-)

Which means that if the LDS church has the priesthood, the power to do God's work on earth, then they've been misusing it since the beginning. It's not about gathering power; it's about giving power away.

Harmony, a good consideration! "IF" LDS have PH Power to do "God's" work..." IMSCO, 'they' are not the only ones!

The "Power-to-do "God's" work," is granted FREELY to anyone who takes the initiative to apply energy, effort and expertice to the purpose of helping where & when needed. "...when you are in the service of humanity you are serving "God"!"

What authority did the "Good Samaritan" have??? Galeleo? Newton? Edison? et al... It's said "God" is not the author of confusion. "He" is the author of TRUTH! There to be had by those who seek, find and apply! The purpose being to serve its fruits to the whole of humanity. Not to exploit it to master the weak of humanity. AS i profile Jesus and his teachings.

LDS are no more right and no less wrong than any Theistic Sect doing "God's" work. Or, claiming their way is "God's" way. I respectfully suggest the latter is in their minds only. Priestcraft is as old as humanity. And is warned against, by wisdom as old as humanity. Jesus himself being the most noteable, and unfortunately the least listened to...

"God" CANNOT WITHOLD BLESSINGS!! Obedience to "God's"/nature's law(s) skillfully, or accidentally, the consequence is the same. "...irrevocably decreed before the foundation of this world/universe(?)..."

Jesus stated emphatically that CHARITY buries Prophets and those who speak with the tongues of angels. They are as nothing! Told by Jesus to, "...depart! I never knew you!"

A lot to consider for sure! The Two New Commandments, IMSCO are what all else--doctrine and theology--are to be measured against. As we all probably have our own units of measurement we will unlikely be unanimous in our 'answer'. As long as we each are happy with ours answer, it matters little about the other guy's opinion.

I have just left mine... AND, i'm happy with it... Warm regards, Roger

[_Roger Morrison]

I wonder how many guys get all excited when they get that call to be a Bishop? "Oh boy! A 1:00 am call to come give a blessing, more hospital visits, unemployed families joining the church for the welfare that I get to drive to the store."

Yeh, It's all about the glory and prestiege.

Hi Gaz, interesting view of service. Where, and how did you develop it? Are you being serious, or facetious?

Whatever, you well state the job description of most who Minister to a congregation. Pastor, Minister, Bishop et al, from every sect and denomination: Protestant, Catholic, JW, 7DA, Mormon etc...

I hope you are not of the opinion that only LDS 'Ministers' attend to "...blessings, hospital visits, unemployed with problems, abuses in families, finding dwellings for battered wives and children, supplying food/clothing/shelter/funds..."

Interestingly, most who accept these responsibilities 'volunteer' to do so. They prepare themselves from their first personal spiritual calling to serve 24-7-365-life time. They did not wait to be 'called' by a man, of whatever title. They resonded to the Holy Spirit/Ghost, that you so often suggest we all should listen to. These folks did.

Many of whom are women!!! Some are homosexual!!! Women could not be utilized to the same extent as men in LDSism. Homosexuals could not participate at all...

Something to think about.... I'll be flying over Vegas tomorrow morning. I'll look for your smoke-signal :-) Warm regards, Roger

[_Yoda]

I wonder how many guys get all excited when they get that call to be a Bishop? "Oh boy! A 1:00 am call to come give a blessing, more hospital visits, unemployed families joining the church for the welfare that I get to drive to the store."

Yeh, It's all about the glory and prestiege.

I do see where Gaz is getting at here. I honestly believe that most bishops who accept this call are very humble, and honestly strive to simply serve the Lord.

However, any way you want to slice it, there is a level of prestige inherited with the calling. The same type of prestige exists in other churches with the pastor or minister. The bishop is basically considered "the father of the Ward". There is a lot of responsibility that rests on his shoulders. In cases like this, it is natural for congregation members to view the bishop with a certain amount of respect, admiration, and even awe.

Unfortunately, I have seen cases where this type of power has gone to the bishop's head. And, we are all human. No doubt, in other Christian denominations, this happens with a pastor.

I do think that there are some men who do "seek out" this type of calling. On the whole, though, I do think that most men who receive a calling as bishop are quite humbled by it and act accordingly.

[_truth dancer]

The world is filled with amazing folks doing all sorts of service, without any sense of duty, obligation, or because they were called.

People also help one another without a care or belief in some otherworldly reward.

I completely do not get the idea that the power of God is somehow held by a few men who happen to believe in Joseph Smith.

Or the idea that without the "priesthood" there would be no service or help or care?

I seriously do not get this line of thinking.

Find any shelter for abused women and you will find a whole team of folks who go out all hours of the night to help abused women... volunteers who work for the pure sake of helping another human being. Nothing about God's power, nothing about becoming Gods and Goddesses, nothing about duty or obligation. Just simple care and compassion for another.

In terms of leaders ... there are some great ones, some horrible ones. Most are somewhere in between. What is true is that the priesthood ( in the LDS church) claims to be the power of God. You can't get away from this.

~dancer~

[_Mephitus]

I would like to take a moment to quote Douglas Adams on leadership

It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.