Tithing, TRI, and part member families...

[_truth dancer]

HI Jason...

I think I addressed this. If Mom is stay at home and non member and Dad works and makes all the money and is a member he would be expected to tithe on what he makes, period. Same if it were reverse. A less strict bishop might let the member slide is non member stay at home objects and earning income member does not tithe to keep the peace. My guess is most would consider him a non tither

OMG Jason.. PLEASE tell me this is your opinion and not the policy of the church.

You are saying that whomever makes the money in a relationship owns the money? Are you kidding? So a SAHM has no money? The breadwinner has the right to do with the money as he wishes? And is expected to give their joint money to the church or he can't go to the temple? Please tell me you aren't serious.

I can hardly believe it is possible to hold such a view.

You are suggesting that a believing husband would have to go against the wishes of his non-member wife and give their shared money to the church because the church views the woman as having no money and no say in how their money is spent?

REALLY? And the church claims to be all about family and marriage! Wow!

Ohhh Harmony... I think you are right! :-(

~dancer~

[_Jersey Girl]

Didn't someone say (and if they didn't they should have) that in the case of a non-wage earning spouse (let's take the SAHM partly out of this and include other marriage partners who do not earn income such as the disabled spouse) and wage earning spouse that the income could be considered jointly owned and that the wage earning spouse could rightly pay tithing on one half of the joint income?

TD, does that sound more palatable to you?

Jersey Girl

[_harmony]

HI Jason...

I think I addressed this. If Mom is stay at home and non member and Dad works and makes all the money and is a member he would be expected to tithe on what he makes, period. Same if it were reverse. A less strict bishop might let the member slide is non member stay at home objects and earning income member does not tithe to keep the peace. My guess is most would consider him a non tither

OMG Jason.. PLEASE tell me this is your opinion and not the policy of the church.

TD, you know as well as I do that there are no hard and fast policies about tithing in the church. It's left up to the individual bishop. Jason is simply giving his opinion of how he thinks it would work in most wards (and I suspect he's right).

You are saying that whomever makes the money in a relationship owns the money? Are you kidding? So a SAHM has no money? The breadwinner has the right to do with the money as he wishes? And is expected to give their joint money to the church or he can't go to the temple? Please tell me you aren't serious.

He's giving you what he thinks the bishop would do. Don't hold it against him, just because he's probably right. We try to keep the messengers alive, remember?

I can hardly believe it is possible to hold such a view.

Why? Surely you've had bishops who would hestitate to deviate from the standard 10% line?

You are suggesting that a believing husband would have to go against the wishes of his non-member wife and give their shared money to the church because the church views the woman as having no money and no say in how their money is spent?

And this surprises you why? I don't have much problem imagining this at all. LDS husbands preside in their homes, remember? They're told that every Sunday in priesthood. Preside, preside, preside! It's no stretch to think that an LDS husband would make all the money decisions in the home, if he's the breadwinner, and never even blink. Actually, I'd be very surprised if the LDS husband even bothered to consult his non-member SAHM wife. That would surprise me.

REALLY? And the church claims to be all about family and marriage! Wow!

Just don't blame Jason. It's not his fault he's the bearer of an unpopular idea.

Ohhh Harmony... I think you are right! :-(

Even a broken clock is right twice a day (which is better than my average, according to Plu!)

[_truth dancer]

Hi Harmony...

No, I'm not blaming Jason at all. I appreciate his information. I should have used the word "observation," or, "guess" rather than "opinion."

I'm quite certain Jason would not agree to this sort of policy (if it is the policy) or thinking. I know he is very conscientious when it comes to equality and the dignity of women.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised but I guess I just didn't realize this sort of thinking still existed. I'm totally wrong.

Jersey Girl...

Yes splitting the money is better than the breadwinner being the sole "owner" of the money. It is still taking away from, say, the retirement of the non-working spouse which could be pretty tough but it certainly is a way a couple could work it out. I think there are many ways individual couples could work it out but they are limited by the policy of the church (if there is one).

:-)

~dancer~

[_harmony]

Hi Harmony...

No, I'm not blaming Jason at all. I appreciate his information. I should have used the word "observation," or, "guess" rather than "opinion."

I'm quite certain Jason would not agree to this sort of policy (if it is the policy) or thinking. I know he is very conscientious when it comes to equality and the dignity of women.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised but I guess I just didn't realize this sort of thinking still existed. I'm totally wrong.

Jersey Girl...

Yes splitting the money is better than the breadwinner being the sole "owner" of the money. It is still taking away from, say, the retirement of the non-working spouse which could be pretty tough but it certainly is a way a couple could work it out. I think there are many ways individual couples could work it out but they are limited by the policy of the church (if there is one).

:-)

~dancer~

I wonder how many LDS couples or widows realize their retirement is a lot less than it could be, and that the poverty in which they will spend their later years is a result of poor fiscal planning/paying tithing instead of putting money away for retirement. Probably not many. I know until the last dozen years or so, I had no retirement fund at all, and what I have now is pretty meager in comparison to others who did a much better job of managing their money than I did. I was too busy paying my 10th to keep our church leaders in million dollar condos.

[_asbestosman]

I know until the last dozen years or so, I had no retirement fund at all, and what I have now is pretty meager in comparison to others who did a much better job of managing their money than I did. I was too busy paying my 10th to keep our church leaders in million dollar condos.

Then you paid tithing for the wrong reason. I've been putting my money into retirement despite paying tithing. And no, I can't really afford either one. The housing costs here are ridiculous. It's just that if I don't put money into retirement, Uncle Sam will take it anyhow. As to tithing, it is unlikely I'd be putting more toward retirement without it. More than likely, that money would go to a nice vacation to Europe, a new car, or something like that.

[_Who Knows]

As to tithing, it is unlikely I'd be putting more toward retirement without it. More than likely, that money would go to a nice vacation to Europe, a new car, or something like that.

Why do you think so? If you're so good about managing your money right now, what makes you think you'd just suddenly stop being good about it when you stop paying tithing?

When I stopped paying tithing, i just squandered my extra money:

Some of it went to a children's hospital nearby
Some of it went into my retirement fund
Some of it went into a college fund for my 3 kids
And the rest of it went to pay for a family vacation

[_Bond...James Bond]

Why do you think so? If you're so good about managing your money right now, what makes you think you'd just suddenly stop being good about it when you stop paying tithing?

When I stopped paying tithing, i just squandered my extra money:

Some of it went to a children's hospital nearby
Some of it went into my retirement fund
Some of it went into a college fund for my 3 kids
And the rest of it went to pay for a family vacation

Gosh Who Knows, you might as well just take your paycheck out in the backyard and burn it. I've never seen such waste. ;)

Bond

[_Who Knows]

Let me clarify - i didn't mean to brag or anything. I've just heard the argument so many times before, and it just drives me nuts - "If i didn't pay tithing, i'd just waste my money anyways, so I might as well pay it".

Total 'what if' BS.

[_harmony]

When I stopped paying tithing, i just squandered my extra money:

Some of it went to a children's hospital nearby

Definitely a worthy charity.

Some of it went into my retirement fund

Good fiscal management.

Some of it went into a college fund for my 3 kids

Good fiscal management.

And the rest of it went to pay for a family vacation

Priceless memories.

All part of responsible fiscal management. Had I not paid all those thousands of dollars (some of which I had to borrow at 24% interest if we were short in December), I like to think I'd have a stock portfolio, a retirement fund 25 years bigger than the one I have now, a smaller mortgage, and I wouldn't have to work until I'm 70 (as my husband expects to). Instead, I paid thousands of dollars every year so our leaders could have unlimited charge cards, stipends fit for kings, maid service, and a set of closed books I can't see. And people wonder why I have trust issues?