I love MAD

[_dartagnan]

You're right CK. And I love watching you post there. You're essentially taking over where I left off, and you appear to be a dedicated and astute researcher who is in it for the long haul. We're glad to have you, and I am grateful that you decided to share your posts on my forum (by the way, my forum might be changing its name to the "Book of Abraham Forum" since that is teh main topic that attracts posters there).

Even though MAD is full of idiotic people, the same goes for other forums too. The problem is the nepotism and the extreme degree to which MAD is moderated with a biased fist. But that shouldn't have too much of an impact on posters like yourself, The Dude, AlfOmega, Tarski, Uncle Dale, Dan Vogel, Sethbag, and perhaps a few others. You guys have managed to wing it over there because you have a gift. You can completely pummel your opponents while being extremely nice to them in the process. I do not have that kind of patience anymore, especially after being punished for it. I rarely consider spending just as much time with banter (i.e. Uncle Dale) as with the substance of a refutation. However when I first engaged in Book of Abraham criticism, the record shows that I was just as cordial and sincere in my presentations as you have been. The testimonies from my opponents, which still stand over there, speak to this truth. Only Juliann, her cackling hens (charity, Nighthawke) and the mysterious and anonymous mods, would ever complain about my "tone." The rest of the audience was often left in confusion; some even openly disagreed with the mods as they saw my posts as "gracious." When two parties see things at the opposite ends of the spectrum, the explanation for this is always bias. So either people who were arguing with me were biased towards me or the mods were biased against me. The answer was obvious.

However, the difference is that you are a non-LDS and can be labeled anti-Mormon if things reach a breaking point. FAIR didn't know how to handle a critic from within, so measures were taken to get me out. They couldn't just throw me out from the get-go; they had to fabricate an excuse. So, as a result, the slightest ambiguity in my posts that could be in any way construed as an "attack,"on someone else or the Church, was understood as such by choice. They did so so warning after warning could be thrown down. Eventually they could ban me on the pretext that I had accumulated a history of warnings. No one single event would warrant my banishment; they had to make up this nonsense about how my "history" has caused them too many problems and that too many people complain about me. Of course, this is a lie just as they lied about not snooping PMs unless they get a complaint. Most wanted me there.

The reason the group mentioned above posts there is because there is discussion worth hearing, and the audience is huge. Further, MAD has plenty of TBMs who are willing to risk embarrassment with these outrageous arguments. I mean Tarski's best, as well as CK's, probably would never have appeared if it were not for the giddy apologists like William Schryver, Pacman or Kerry Shirts, who would just throw out stupid arguments before thinking them through. You cannot have a true debate unless you have two passionate representatives from both sides. MAD has that. Those same posters have no one to compete with if they come here or on my forum. Virtually everyone here is a critic of the Church, so it becomes somewhat of an echo chamber.

I mean let's be real, who are you going to debate with on the Book of Abraham here... Plutarch? Wade? Gazelem? Pahoran? Of course not. They do not have the passion nor the background knowledge to provide the slightest challenge. They'd get lost before you could finish your opening paragraph. They show up here just to make pithy comments (aside from wade who wants to help everyone with their psychological deficiencies).

Who will The Dude debate DNA studies with here? Even if someone tried to debate him here the discussion would be pretty boring because the amateur apologists that appear here cannot provide decent arguments to attract any attention.

Will MAD go away? No. And after much thought, I wouldn't want it to. Without MAD I would have no source for humor.

Really, I scroll through MAD every few days for that exact purpose.

[_wenglund]

There is nowhere else I have found that so many intelligent (and well-informed) people come together and share their views in so cordial a manner. Nor is there anywhere else I have found where people so carefully listen to what you have to say, even if they are determined to disagree. Aside perhaps from a spat with juliann, I have not had any conversations there where I felt like cutting my own wrists. Perhaps most importantly, despite all the complaints I hear about the moderating there, I think the moderators actually do a bang-up job. I don't come to the forum to read ad hominems. As a high-school substitute teacher and youth pastor, I encounter quite enough drama in real life. I don't want to read it on a message board, too. They filter things pretty well, I think. I'd like for Kevin Graham to be able to post there now and then, because I feel he has some really intelligent things to say, and I'd like for them to be a little harder on some MADB favorites who frequently cross the line, but honestly I have to say that the pros far outweigh the cons. I'd take it over this board any day of the week. I love MADB so much, I think I should marry it.

-Your resident chimpanzee

This is a wonderful attitude that I believe speaks very well of your character. And, I trust that this kind of balanced and positive way of viewing things has served you well in many if not all areas in your life--perhaps at times making the difference between repelling diverse people or endearing them to you, and having a positive influence on how you may view yourself. We would all do well to emmulate this healthy and functional people-skill.

Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-

[_rcrocket]

Does it bother you at all that Juliann is lying through her virtual teeth and posting private communication on MAD?

Just curious.

Jersey Girl

Who is Juliann and why should I care the least about what she thinks?

P

[_Jersey Girl]

Does it bother you at all that Juliann is lying through her virtual teeth and posting private communication on MAD?

Just curious.

Jersey Girl

Who is Juliann and why should I care the least about what she thinks?

P

Who are the people here and why should you care about what they do or say? I didn't ask you about what she "thinks".

Jersey Girl

[_moksha]

If you were on MAD, you would need to substitute the phrase, "breaking the law of chastity" for the M-word. Otherwise you would risk incurring the enmity of a MAD moderator. I learned this from experience. Besides, you would probably enjoy "breaking the law of chastity" more since it need not be a solitary experience.

[_why me]

MAD is a good place and the reasons why those critics are making it there is because they show respect in their postings. No one on MAD wants the board to be critic free. In fact, it is just the opposite. It is the critics that make that board and the active LDS too. The LDS posters who are on that forum seem to be good people. And I enjoy their posts and the posts of the critics.

In this debate of the Book of Mormon or for that matter any debate concerning the church, there will never be winners nor losers. It will be an eternal debate. Even Uncle Dale would not be so lonely if he existed during the early days of the church when Spaulding's head first appeared in the critics net. It is a timeless debate with critics believing in it and the LDS not believing it. Likewise for other aspects of the gospel.

But this board is okay too. Except that some posters have a chip on their shoulder which should be forgotten. The refugees have a board now. You can make it a success but the bitterness needs to disappear. New beginnings are important. It is time to move on. And as you can see some of us are here...giving the flavor of MAD to MDB! :=)

[_Mister Scratch]

There is nowhere else I have found that so many intelligent (and well-informed) people come together and share their views in so cordial a manner. Nor is there anywhere else I have found where people so carefully listen to what you have to say, even if they are determined to disagree. Aside perhaps from a spat with juliann, I have not had any conversations there where I felt like cutting my own wrists. Perhaps most importantly, despite all the complaints I hear about the moderating there, I think the moderators actually do a bang-up job. I don't come to the forum to read ad hominems. As a high-school substitute teacher and youth pastor, I encounter quite enough drama in real life. I don't want to read it on a message board, too. They filter things pretty well, I think. I'd like for Kevin Graham to be able to post there now and then, because I feel he has some really intelligent things to say, and I'd like for them to be a little harder on some MADB favorites who frequently cross the line, but honestly I have to say that the pros far outweigh the cons. I'd take it over this board any day of the week. I love MADB so much, I think I should marry it.

-Your resident chimpanzee

A wonderful and hilarious satiric post, CK. Well done!

[_Yoda]

Here, you can learn all there is to know about the evil worshipers of a pederast, which worshipers haunt that "other" board, simply by following the wildly entertaining posts of the likes of Liz and Mr. Scratch.
Plutarch

Don't I have a right to defend myself when Juliann is posting lies on a board I cannot access?

Look, Plutarch, I'm not harboring some type of grudge where I wake up every day and say, "How can I get back at FAIR people?" That's really not my style. Was I hurt by what happened to me? Yes. Have I moved on? Yes.

I didn't resurface all of this crap. Juliann did.

[_rcrocket]

Here, you can learn all there is to know about the evil worshipers of a pederast, which worshipers haunt that "other" board, simply by following the wildly entertaining posts of the likes of Liz and Mr. Scratch.
Plutarch

Don't I have a right to defend myself when Juliann is posting lies on a board I cannot access?

Look, Plutarch, I'm not harboring some type of grudge where I wake up every day and say, "How can I get back at FAIR people?" That's really not my style. Was I hurt by what happened to me? Yes. Have I moved on? Yes.

I didn't resurface all of this crap. Juliann did.

So, who is Juliann and should I care what she writes? Seems that she, whom I don't know, and Dr. Peterson, must be worse than Hitler himself, at least according to the posts on this board. The way you describe them, I hope they stay the hell away from me.

P

[_Yoda]

So, who is Juliann and should I care what she writes? Seems that she, whom I don't know, and Dr. Peterson, must be worse than Hitler himself, at least according to the posts on this board. The way you describe them, I hope they stay the hell away from me.

P

You really have never visited the FAIR/MAD boards?

Juliann was key in creating the original FAIR message board. She is a Pundit and Part-time Moderator on the current MAD board. Click on Shade's blog for the details on my dealing with her for the short time that I was a Mod on FAIR.

As far as Dr. Peterson goes...to be honest, I have never really interacted with him. He is very knowledgable about the gospel, but I do think he has been disingenuous with Scratch, Kevin, and other members of this board, and I'm not really thrilled with his people skills. I don't think I would put him in the same category with Hitler, though. ;)

Juliann, on the other hand, in my opinion, is very manipulative, and is definitely a "fair weather friend". Her friendships tend to revolve around who is going to help her socially rise in her circle, and when you have worn out your usefulness, she not only throws you to the curb, but refuses to even dialogue with you. So yes, my suggestion would be to "stay the hell away from her".