God delusion and the future of humankind....

[_asbestosman]

I think atheism will be virtually extinct in the Millenium .... people will walk and talk with God.

Just a hypothetical here for you asbestosman: How many years would it take for people to figure out that there is not going to be a millennium? 50 years? 100 years? 1,000 years?

I think most people think that it should be any time now - ie. within 100 years probably. I mean, we are supposedly living in the 'latter days' aren't we?

And when 1,000 years comes and goes without a millenium, what happens to christianity as we know it?

I have no idea. I recall a similar thing happening in the Book of Mormon when the disbelievers wanted to put the believers to death because they hadn't seen the signs prophecied of by Samuel the Lamanite. I think putting an upper limit on this is a really bad idea. In fact it is already prophecied that it will come when people least suspect it.

We certainly are living in the latter days. President Hinckley once said that he didn't know when it'd happen, but the Second Coming is closer than it's ever been before. My gut feel is that it'll happen within 50 years but I'll die in the war. I think the war will start over both religion in the middle east, and resources like food and fuel in general. Actually, I often think that economic callapse is likely to happen within 20 years due to the resources we deplete from the earth. I also think the whole Muslim vs Christian vs others thing will escilate. If there is no Millenium, we'll annihilate each other because in the next world war, everyone will have nukes and pleny will be crazy enough to use them.

There's no way we could know the Millenium won't come unless the human race is wiped out. Of course then you're either a cadaver rotting in a grave, or some kind of spirit that possibly gets reincarnated as an insect or bacterium that happend to survive the nuclear holocaust.

[_Who Knows]

My gut feel is that it'll happen within 50 years

Weren't people in Joseph Smith's day saying pretty much the same thing?

So, just to be conservative, would you say that if in 100 years the millenium hasn't come, then there isn't really going to be a millenium? You never really answered the first time.

Just remember - I said this is only a hypothetical anyways - just speculation. So feel free to throw in a guess.

And then, what happens to christianity when that time comes and goes?

Oh, and why do you think you'll die in 'the war'?

[_asbestosman]

My gut feel is that it'll happen within 50 years

Weren't people in Joseph Smith's day saying pretty much the same thing?

Yes, but they didn't have nukes and a bunch of crazy people in the world who were ready to use them.

So, just to be conservative, would you say that if in 100 years the millenium hasn't come, then there isn't really going to be a millenium? You never really answered the first time.

The answer is no. I though I did answer that before. That's why I brought up the story of the unbelievers trying to set a date for the sign of Christ's birth. I think such a thing is a bad idea.

Just remember - I said this is only a hypothetical anyways - just speculation. So feel free to throw in a guess.

In uder 50 years. The big war will probably start within 20 years.

And then, what happens to christianity when that time comes and goes?

If we don't wipe each other out in the war, then Christianity goes on just fine.

Oh, and why do you think you'll die in 'the war'?

Mostly a gut feeling. I'm neither have great survival skills nor do I see myself as being a particularly good soldier. Nor do I think God will preserve my life for the Millenium when He could use many others who would be better suited to building up His kingdom.

[_Who Knows]

And then, what happens to christianity when that time comes and goes?

If we don't wipe each other out in the war, then Christianity goes on just fine.

So, you think if this time period comes and goes, and there is no millenium, that christianity will still carry on, just like normal? In other words, if, say, 500 years from now, Christ hasn't returned to the earth yet to usher in the millenium, christianity will still be just fine?

[_truth dancer]

There have been many cases where a religious group was anticipating the end of the world or the return of a diety only for a date to come and go... seems there are ways to rationalize this. (We weren't ready, or God has his ways, or we misunderstood, or whatever).

The belief in the return of Jesus has been expected for two thousand years. My understanding is that Joseph Smith & Co. were expecting it in the early days of the church.

I think it will keep going for some time to come.

~dancer~

[_Who Knows]

I think it will keep going for some time to come.

~dancer~

That's what I'm trying to get at. When do people stop, and say, "enough is enough, it ain't gonna happen".

I'm guessing it changes with each generation. ie, in Joseph Smith's day, they could say "well, it'll definitely happen by 1900" but since they wouldn't be alive then, who really cares. Likewise, asbestosman could say 50 to 100 years, knowing that if he lives to 100 and it still hasn't happened, who cares because his timeframe isn't up yet. Then the next generation may say 100 years, and so on and so on.

[_asbestosman]

The belief in the return of Jesus has been expected for two thousand years. My understanding is that Joseph Smith & Co. were expecting it in the early days of the church.

Wait, are you saying that you believe Joseph Smith was sincere or perhaps a pious fraud? It's hard to believe that a complete liar would also believe in the Second Coming.

[_asbestosman]

I think it will keep going for some time to come.

~dancer~

That's what I'm trying to get at. When do people stop, and say, "enough is enough, it ain't gonna happen".

Ultimately it depends on the individual person, but I doubt God is going to change His mind and decide not to come. The scriptures further prophecied that many would scoff that God isn't coming: 2 Peter 3:4 and Luke 12:45-46.

I'm guessing it changes with each generation. ie, in Joseph Smith's day, they could say "well, it'll definitely happen by 1900" but since they wouldn't be alive then, who really cares. Likewise, asbestosman could say 50 to 100 years, knowing that if he lives to 100 and it still hasn't happened, who cares because his timeframe isn't up yet. Then the next generation may say 100 years, and so on and so on.

Note: I am not saying it will definitely happen in 50 to 100 years. It's just my gut feeling. I would be foolish to tell my posterity to abandon God over my personal guesses.

Again, the reason I think it most likely to happen in my lifetime is because there now exist weapons of mass destructoin (Nukes) and there are some crazy world leaders (N. Korea) that aren't afraid to use them.

[_Who Knows]

That's what I'm trying to get at. When do people stop, and say, "enough is enough, it ain't gonna happen".

Ultimately it depends on the individual person, but I doubt God is going to change His mind and decide not to come. The scriptures further prophecied that many would scoff that God isn't coming: 2 Peter 3:4 and Luke 12:45-46.

Are you being obtuse on purpose? ;)

When does your 'I doubt god is going to change his mind' turn to 'looks like it ain't gonna happen'? 100 years? 500 years? 1,000 years? Never?

[_Who Knows]

...and there are some crazy world leaders (N. Korea) that aren't afraid to use them.

Why do you say that? How do you know he's not afraid to use them? Has he ever used them? In fact, I think the US is the only country who's ever used something similar...