Welcome question for Shirts: Where is the stone box?

[_gramps]

I would say that is one of the more accurate painting as I know of none that are exact.

Would you grant that others, not Mormon, could have the same experience, including FLDS, et. al.?

Yes absolutely I see no reason why not. Mormons do not have the monopoly on spiritual experiences by any means, we are all children of God. People of divers back grounds including staunch athiests have had visions of Christ in OBE's and NDE's. Take Roy Mills for example a non-mormon that apparently never had the veil completely drawn over his memory, tells the same story of life before earth that Mormons do, of the pre-existence celestial heaven, with freaky similarity. He has written a book on the subject I believe.

Then, why do you think the Mormon God would leave these people without any knowledge of the true church now on the earth? They are ready to see Christ, but not to become members of the Church? These people aren't all running to the Mormon church for the only legitimate baptism and temple ordinances. Why would he show himself to them, but not let them know where to go or what to do next? And why would these people think they would need anything else. A visitation seems to be at the top of the spiritual experience pyramid, doesn't it? Do they even need baptism and to go through the temple after such an experience?

Also, are you saying your experience was an OBE? or NDE? or was it something different?

[_Baurak Ale]

People were having visions for Christ after Christ died, through the dark ages, before during and after the Church was restored in 1830 and no doubt people the world over will continue to have these experiences. All humanity are children of God and Christ Atonned for all mankind, and loves all of Gods children.

The way I see it everyone is on their own path, their own life journey, all the different church's and religions that are out there meet the individual where ever they are at in their stage of progression. I believe sooner or later when an individual is ready they will come to a knowledge of Christ's true Church only when they are ready where ever they are in the post existence.

A visitation seems to be at the top of the spiritual experience pyramid, doesn't it?

Yes I would agree to that, however you will find generally non-mormons NDE visions and meetings with Christ, no words are spoken they merely see and feel the presense of a loving being and stand in his radiance. That is it.
This is my opinion only and does not reflect official doctrine of the church in any way whatsoever. There are three higher initiations that are required for exaltation. The first is with the Holy Ghost, the second with Christ, the third and final is with the Father. Three Mountains to pass.

Also, are you saying your experience was an OBE? or NDE? or was it something different?

No I am not saying that. Although I have had thousands of OBE's.

[_gramps]

People were having visions for Christ after Christ died, through the dark ages, before during and after the Church was restored in 1830 and no doubt people the world over will continue to have these experiences. All humanity are children of God and Christ Atonned for all mankind, and loves all of Gods children.

The way I see it everyone is on their own path, their own life journey, all the different church's and religions that are out there meet the individual where ever they are at in their stage of progression. I believe sooner or later when an individual is ready they will come to a knowledge of Christ's true Church only when they are ready where ever they are in the post existence.

A visitation seems to be at the top of the spiritual experience pyramid, doesn't it?

Yes I would agree to that, however you will find generally non-mormons NDE visions and meetings with Christ, no words are spoken they merely see and feel the presense of a loving being and stand in his radiance. That is it.
This is my opinion only and does not reflect official doctrine of the church in any way whatsoever. There are three higher initiations that are required for exaltation. The first is with the Holy Ghost, the second with Christ, the third and final is with the Father. Three Mountains to pass.

Also, are you saying your experience was an OBE? or NDE? or was it something different?

No I am not saying that. Although I have had thousands of OBE's.

Hi Baurak Ale. there is another Baurak Ale on the mad board. You don't seem to be the same person. Are you? Just wondering.

Also, you seem to be highly "spiritually" sensitive and I'm wondering what you think in your character or experience has created this sensitivity? How do the people in the Church react to your experiences, assuming you share them with them?

[_Baurak Ale]

The spiritual terminology and classification I think your referring to is 'A Sensitive' ie, like a Intiutive, clairaudient, clairvoyant clairsentiant, all different classifications. Yes I would say I am a 'sensitive' among other things. Although I consider myself like I said about as spiritual as a house brick, I am just aware of my awareness, or something dunno.

How do the people in the Church react to your experiences, assuming you share them with them?

Well I don't really consider my experiences really remarkable enough to bother sharing them, compared with other members experiences I have heard. I have been astral traveling most nights for over 20 years, some people find that remarkable however if they only knew that any average cockspaniel could learn to do it, and that it doesn't even matter if your as spiritual as a house brick. There are common misconceptions in my opinion. People seem to associate spiritual abilities, like second sight, clairvoyance, telepathy and things with the person being some kind of devine spiritual righteous person for some reason.

However anyone can open the third eye, and astral travel whether your wicked person on the left hand path, or a guru on the right hand path. People without any of these party trick like spiritual abilities whatsoever can be deeply good spiritual beings, that have deep still waters of profound spirituality.

[_gramps]

The spiritual terminology and classification I think your referring to is 'A Sensitive' ie, like a Intiutive, clairaudient, clairvoyant clairsentiant, all different classifications. Yes I would say I am a 'sensitive' among other things. Although I consider myself like I said about as spiritual as a house brick, I am just aware of my awareness, or something dunno.

How do the people in the Church react to your experiences, assuming you share them with them?

Well I don't really consider my experiences really remarkable enough to bother sharing them, compared with other members experiences I have heard. I have been astral traveling most nights for over 20 years, some people find that remarkable however if they only knew that any average cockspaniel could learn to do it, and that it doesn't even matter if your as spiritual as a house brick. There are common misconceptions in my opinion. People seem to associate spiritual abilities, like second sight, clairvoyance, telepathy and things with the person being some kind of devine spiritual righteous person for some reason.

However anyone can open the third eye, and astral travel whether your wicked person on the left hand path, or a guru on the right hand path. People without any of these party trick like spiritual abilities whatsoever can be deeply good spiritual beings, that have deep still waters of profound spirituality.

To where was your latest travel? And how long does this travel usually last? Does it seem longer than it actually is?

[_Baurak Ale]

Well I usually end up randomly in about 4-5 different places of a night, with each wave of waking and sleeping of a night. Where ever your conciousness is when you fall through the Delta window of conciousness will take you to a different location on the Astral. If your interested in learning more in my opinion though there have been many writers on the subject since the sixties, Robert Bruce is perhaps the most accurate, he has a good book(tome) on the subject Astral Dynamics. He has also co-authored a book with some other guy for the beggining novice.

To where was your latest travel? And how long does this travel usually last? Does it seem longer than it actually is?

Last night I visited my mothers house. Jaunts on the real time plane that is like floating around like an invisible ghost on the earth are usually only short and are hard to maintain, for long periods without reality fluctuations and distortions. Usually by the time I return to my body I can while the astral body has condensed just into the mind(brain), which is like its all black but your aware of your conciousness but not your body however you are aware your centre of being the "me" is located in the brain area, and you aware of the position of your body on the bed but you can't physically feel it, when in that state I can usually before I decided to reconect the silver cord and wake up I can usually pretty closely estimate the time before I glance at my alarm clock.

Its not too hard to do, just next time you wake up the second you do try and recall where you were or what you were dreaming. Eventually that will cause you to constantly be lucid dreaming while asleep, eventually your conciousness will wake up even further with practise and you will peal back the dream plane, and see the REAL WORLD AS IT STANDS. You can't explain it you have to see if for yourself. The Tunnels (Portholes) and and planes that Bruce explains quite well are the same thing are the junctions of the planes to view them gives one a good understanding of the complexity of the whole system and how it all interconnects. All the planes Bruce describes are accurate, I have seen them ALL.

[_gramps]

Well I usually end up randomly in about 4-5 different places of a night, with each wave of waking and sleeping of a night. Where ever your conciousness is when you fall through the Delta window of conciousness will take you to a different location on the Astral. If your interested in learning more in my opinion though there have been many writers on the subject since the sixties, Robert Bruce is perhaps the most accurate, he has a good book(tome) on the subject Astral Dynamics. He has also co-authored a book with some other guy for the beggining novice.

To where was your latest travel? And how long does this travel usually last? Does it seem longer than it actually is?

Last night I visited my mothers house. Jaunts on the real time plane that is like floating around like an invisible ghost on the earth are usually only short and are hard to maintain, for long periods without reality fluctuations and distortions. Usually by the time I return to my body I can while the astral body has condensed just into the mind(brain), which is like its all black but your aware of your conciousness but not your body however you are aware your centre of being the "me" is located in the brain area, and you aware of the position of your body on the bed but you can't physically feel it, when in that state I can usually before I decided to reconect the silver cord and wake up I can usually pretty closely estimate the time before I glance at my alarm clock.

Its not too hard to do, just next time you wake up the second you do try and recall where you were or what you were dreaming. Eventually that will cause you to constantly be lucid dreaming while asleep, eventually your conciousness will wake up even further with practise and you will peal back the dream plane, and see the REAL WORLD AS IT STANDS. You can't explain it you have to see if for yourself. The Tunnels (Portholes) and and planes that Bruce explains quite well are the same thing are the junctions of the planes to view them gives one a good understanding of the complexity of the whole system and how it all interconnects. All the planes Bruce describes are accurate, I have seen them ALL.

How do you get any rest, what with all that travel you are doing each night? Can you cross an ocean, or does that take too long?

[_Baurak Ale]

Yes you can cross an ocean although it takes a little getting used to because, there is the natural reflex to hold ones breath when it isn't necessary. There are different modes and ways of travel. ie. Place youself somewhere and just appear there like teleport (travel as quick as thought) although to do this sucessfully is very hard unless you know the pinpointed location extremely well with great familarlity. Although its unlikely you would cross the ocean that would take some time if you were to do it at a speed where you could see everything and would not be done in one session you would mostly investigate something and spend you time exploring that. The Astral Body is commonly incorrectly said to be hard to control, rather is its controlled differently from the physical body.

Actually the ocean question was a good one I recently investigated a group called Mystic Web, that teaches free astral travel courses around the world. All of their information quiet accurate in my opinion apart from a few doctrines of its founder I am unsure of and a few ideas on astral metaphysics which I put down to the inexperience of the young lectures. Wow this thread has done a 360.

[_Fortigurn]

Keep going BA, I find this very interesting.

[_Baurak Ale]

Is there anything specificially you would like to know? I suppose I know quiet alot about the subject in a way, though I have done it for 2 decades in my youth unfortunately I had no objectivity. David Morehouse was a Latter Day Saint that did remote viewing (astral travel) during the cold war I think for the CIA. He has been one of many to expose the program. He wrote a book on it, google him. The little I know of government remote viewers I was quiet surprised to see how inexperienced they were for years I imagined they would be like academic occultists, not a bit of it.

The best America had for example was a Joe McMonigal good guy but hardly a big powerful Black Magician just a Point Man from Vietnam that had a good six sense and stayed alive. I worried for many years about bumping into a government agent on the astral planes at night while on a jaunt because I knew from expose's they had been doing research into severing the silver cord remotely, and killing people on the physical real plane astrally through sort of astral assinations. If your interested in learning more there is plenty of information online, but suggest in the strongest possible terms that if you try it do not do it unless you have read up on astral attacks and combat. Actually strike that I would suggest that you read up on it at least one book. Most likely your projections will be completely pleasant and uneventful but in the uncommon case of attack I suggest some reading and meditation on the subject is done firstly.