VegasRefugee wrote:Who introduced you to Mormonism?
No one introduced me to it, really. I had a friend who occasionally talked about it, but she lived in another state. I was always out on a drug binge when she was around and she didn't bother trying to teach me anything abouyt it. After a brush with death when I ODed I decided I needed to find out what I was doing with my life. I started to read all of the sacred literature I could find. I read the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, The Lao-tzu, the Bible and whatever else I could find. I thought the Book of Mormon would be a fun way to remind myself of my friend, but I thought the story was hard to follow and the names were stupid. When I wasn't reading it I wanted to be reading it, though, and the lessons of the story started to jump out at me and my life started changing. I would rush home early from work so I could read it. I got to a part about baptism and decided I needed to take the next step if I was going to continue having this force for good in my life. I found out from a friend who I had to talk to and I went to church one Sunday in jeans and a t-shirt to look for the missionaries. I found them and walked up to them and said, "Hi, I'm Dan. What do I have to do to get baptized?" They told me to pray about the Book of Mormon. Up to this point I hadn't prayed about it, but I figured it was important enough to try. I had a few very spiritual experiences verify for me that I was doing the right thing, so I got baptized. Best decision I've ever made.
Have you read Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan? I think if you are as open minded as you claim you might find that faith is not as friendly to you as you think it is.
If you want a copy I will get you one. Seriously.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Mak - if the church brings you joy - great. If it brings you spiritual witnesses - great. But you do realize that this says absolutely nothing about the truth of the church. Like Seth said, millions of people experience these sorts of things in various religions. Do you really think they provide even a shred of evidence for any sort of truth regarding religion? Sure, it may be 'true' for that individual, but saying it's somehow universally true is just plain wrong.
Like I said - if it makes you happy - good for you - just so long as you know that it means absolutely nothing in terms of real/universal truth.
Let me anticipate macs response:
"its all relative"
I keep hearing assertions about generalizations and reductions. What part of the gospel do any of you feel contradicts absolute truth?
Mak - if the church brings you joy - great. If it brings you spiritual witnesses - great. But you do realize that this says absolutely nothing about the truth of the church. Like Seth said, millions of people experience these sorts of things in various religions. Do you really think they provide even a shred of evidence for any sort of truth regarding religion? Sure, it may be 'true' for that individual, but saying it's somehow universally true is just plain wrong.
Like I said - if it makes you happy - good for you - just so long as you know that it means absolutely nothing in terms of real/universal truth.
Let me anticipate macs response:
"its all relative"
I keep hearing assertions about generalizations and reductions. What part of the gospel do any of you feel contradicts absolute truth?
specifics, hmmm. How about the Book of Mormon preaching against polygamy yet Joe went ahead with it anyway?
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
VegasRefugee wrote: Have you read Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan? I think if you are as open minded as you claim you might find that faith is not as friendly to you as you think it is.
If you want a copy I will get you one. Seriously.
Does he speak of my personal faith, or does he reduce the faiths of millions to one easy to handle formula that he then takes apart?
VegasRefugee wrote: Have you read Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan? I think if you are as open minded as you claim you might find that faith is not as friendly to you as you think it is.
If you want a copy I will get you one. Seriously.
Does he speak of my personal faith, or does he reduce the faiths of millions to one easy to handle formula that he then takes apart?
VegasRefugee wrote: Have you read Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan? I think if you are as open minded as you claim you might find that faith is not as friendly to you as you think it is.
If you want a copy I will get you one. Seriously.
Does he speak of my personal faith, or does he reduce the faiths of millions to one easy to handle formula that he then takes apart?
You say that like its a bad thing.
Its not a reductionist argument (i think). Its based on living your life based on the evidence given to you.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
VegasRefugee wrote: Have you read Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan? I think if you are as open minded as you claim you might find that faith is not as friendly to you as you think it is.
If you want a copy I will get you one. Seriously.
Does he speak of my personal faith, or does he reduce the faiths of millions to one easy to handle formula that he then takes apart?
You may be interested in the fact FARMS is full of poopoo ...note I didn't swear lest this thread be relegated to telestial land...just kidding Shades ;)
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Mak - if the church brings you joy - great. If it brings you spiritual witnesses - great. But you do realize that this says absolutely nothing about the truth of the church. Like Seth said, millions of people experience these sorts of things in various religions. Do you really think they provide even a shred of evidence for any sort of truth regarding religion? Sure, it may be 'true' for that individual, but saying it's somehow universally true is just plain wrong.
Like I said - if it makes you happy - good for you - just so long as you know that it means absolutely nothing in terms of real/universal truth.
So you believe in absolute truth?
I believe your 'knowledge' of truth is only applicable to yourself, and tells us nothing about it's applicability to people in general. Likewise for Tom Cruise, Bin Laden, etc. I believe their 'knowledge' of truth is about as valid as yours - in other words - it has zero value to me.
The fact that these 'truths' contradict each other tells me that either they've all got it wrong - or they're all right (in some way).
Anyways, what I was trying to say is this: I may believe the FSM and his 'gospel' is true - but I'm sure you'd agree that my knowledge of this 'truth' says nothing about it's 'universal' 'truthiness'.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...