We have been rebuked for our inequities

Post by **_Great Cthulhu** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RfM needs DCP in the same way...

Christianity needs Satan
George Bush needs Bin Laden
Rush Limbaugh needed Bill Clinton

Post by **_gramps** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:47 pm

beastie wrote:
Also, Beastie, a lot of the ex-mo crowd, before they were ex-mo went to FAIR for help and ran into Daniel C. Peterson, and came away quite unimpressed, to put it mildly.

They like him even less after the light has fully turned on and they can see the deception of apologetics. He has become the lightning rod for all that anger. Being told that they are sinners or lazy by the apologists and others on the former FAIR board doesn't help the situation, I'm sure.

Now that is very true. DCP couldn't resist dabbling in just that on the thread in question, when he said that scratch isn't just one person, but "legion".

I have pointed this out before whenever TBMs start ranting about how mean exmo's are. If healing is ever going to occur between these two communities, the church will have to take the step of ceasing their teachings about apostates being inspired by satan, lazy, wanting to sin, etc. We see that repeated on MAD, albeit usually in subtler fashions, quite a bit. When I first started talking online to believers, my goal was to help them understand one thing - that, even if one still has faith, LDS believers should be able to recognize that there are very troubling issues connected with LDS claims that can cause sincere, decent people to lose faith. I failed utterly in that regard. The people who "got it" already got it before I started. The people who didn't never will. Oh, some claim to get it, but their words betray them.

We forgot to add Bednar's (in)famous conference talk on the fact that nearly, if not all the people he has met who have left the church left because they were offended by another member at church. That didn't help the situation. Damn, those guys are so out of touch!

Post by **_skippy the dead** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:59 pm

Awww, now the thread is closed (thanks be to the Flying Spaghetti Monster). Although Wade is trying to resurrect it by starting his own thread and comparing Peterson to Christ!

Okay - now I'm really going to stop. Where's a good thread on the role of women in the church that I can sink my teeth into?

Post by **_beastie** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:27 pm

Perhaps it is time to hunt up one of my old posts listing many of the bigoted, offensive statements made by church leaders over the pulpit about apostates. :O

Post by **_Mister Scratch** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:25 am

beastie wrote:I have to admit I don't understand why so many exmo's are fascinated with DCP. He's frequently mentioned over on RFM, and yes, some of the attacks are personal, juvenile, pointlessly ugly. It seems that he has become some sort of personification of LDS apologetics. I don't get it. I don't think the quality of his apologia, at least what I've read in interacting with him, is worth all the attention. He really isn't that good. Is he producing vast amounts of apologia, and that's why he gets so much attention? Or maybe it's the adoration and devotion so many TBMs show him online?

There are a few reasons why DCP is the "apotheosis" of online LDS apologetics.
1. He is the most frequent participant on FAIR/MAD
2. The ball has been set in motion. Everyone on RfM knows who he is, and so he gets mentioned to the new crop of exmos showing up over there, and so the cycle continues.
3. A good deal of his apologia is aimed at attacking RfM, exmos, and apostates generally, which only ups the ante. (Most other apologists stick to the usual ad hominem attacks on scholarly books and articles, or else they deal with history and doctrine.) So far as I know, Prof. Peterson is the only one who comments in an "official capacity" on the world of online Mormonism, and more specifically, online ex- and anti-Mormonism. (Can you imagine any other apologist producing pieces like "The Witchcraft Paradigm," or "Apologetics by the Numbers"?)

What is it about him that merits this position in the exmo "hall of infamy"? It can't just be producing bad apologia, there's so much of it produced by so many. Is it that he can't stay away from online boards and hence, people know if they pick at him he'll read it?

Yes. It is also his arrogance, and stubborn refusal to admit when he is wrong.

Post by **_twinkie** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:39 am

I had to go over there to take a peek-what a hateful thread. It seems most are saying, "Hey, look how awful those people are. I'm a really good person! Look at me!"

Post by **_moksha** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:13 am

twinkie wrote:I had to go over there to take a peek-what a hateful thread. It seems most are saying, "Hey, look how awful those people are. I'm a really good person! Look at me!"

Hopefully, now that they have got that off their collective chest, the two boards can have more cordial relations. There will still be some name calling as per Mr. Scratch's post above, but it would at least be good if people could start thinking about being nicer to one another. My guess is that we would ultimately have a lot to gain by doing so.

Post by **_barrelomonkeys** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:49 pm

Well this explains a lot.

Post by **_Gazelam** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:39 pm

http://www.LDS.org/churchmusic/detailmusicPlayer/index.html?searchlanguage=1&searchcollection=1&searchseqstart=308&searchsubseqstart=%20&searchseqend=308&searchsubseqend=ZZZ