What would it take for you to leave Mormonism?

[_Mercury]

Found this, thought I'd share it with your God Math question:

Okay, here's another.
Human body = 600,000,000,000,000 cells.
Each cell = 1,000,000,000,000 molecules.
Each molecule MUST be in a very specific place to function.
If ONE cell evolved trying once a second, 1 trillion seconds, possibly or about 31,710 years.for ONE cell to form! now multiply that times how many cells in the human body, 600,000,000,000,000. That's approximately 190,260 QUADRILLION years!!! Do the math.
Universe = 7 - 14 billions years old. Can't happen

To truly tackle this gross mischaracterization one must first understand things that Gaz neither has ever had the time nor the interest in learning. He will remain locked in his existence as a dullard, uneducated and uninterested in truly understanding the things he speaks so highly of.

[_The Dude]

I disagree. There is no reason for me to trust their accounting of events. They could be mistaken. I must verify (or falsify) the claims through my own experience.

Well, then technically, you should be able to go through the process again, and see if they're doing it right - re-test it. The same goes for your situation. I should be able to observe you to see if you get the same result.

Anyways, I can't even remember why we're debating this. Was it that you were arguing that this process didn't follow the normal scientific protocols, yet it is science? Or something like that?

LOL Who Knows.

I'm debating this because of the quotes asbestosman posted from the review of The Demon Haunted World. Sagan says pseudoscience is foolishness because of X,Y and Z. The review says, "No, religion is different from pseudoscience, and Mormonism especially has neat-o religious experiments that are just like science." Um, no they're not. These religious experiments are more like pseudoscience than most other religions even, because they can persuade the follower into thinking he's doing something like a scientific experiment when really he's not.

It's not falsifiable. There's a codified excuse for when you don't get the "right" answer -- that is, "God won't be tempted" or "God is testing your faith."

[_Who Knows]

These religious experiments are more like pseudoscience than most other religions even, because they can persuade the follower into thinking he's doing something like a scientific experiment when really he's not.

Ha, good point. I didn't even think of that, but it makes sense. A wolf in sheep's clothing kinda?

[_asbestosman]

How is it falsified?

Here is how to falsify it and I quote myself:

I believe that one could know it was false one truly and sincerely (in their own honest estimation, not mine) tried to follow the commandments and found that it didn't work--that the promises were not true--that they do not find happiness and enlightenment from it.

[_Mercury]

How is it falsified?

Here is how to falsify it and I quote myself:

I believe that one could know it was false one truly and sincerely (in their own honest estimation, not mine) tried to follow the commandments and found that it didn't work--that the promises were not true--that they do not find happiness and enlightenment from it.

But finding the truth of the Book of Mormon comes before following the commandments of your imaginary friend.

[_asbestosman]

There's a codified excuse for when you don't get the "right" answer -- that is, "God won't be tempted" or "God is testing your faith."

Actually, those are only reasons why you can't falsify it for me. However, I believe I can (in principle) falsify it for mysef (just as I can verify it for myself).

[_asbestosman]

But finding the truth of the Book of Mormon comes before following the commandments of your imaginary friend.

Sometimes you gotta take a few steps in the dark--a leap of faith if you will. Jesus said to do His will and (thereby) know the doctrine. I think doing--experimenting on the word--is a large part of how we obtain this knowledge.

[Analytics]

I'm debating this because of the quotes asbestosman posted from the review of The Demon Haunted World. Sagan says pseudoscience is foolishness because of X,Y and Z. The review says, "No, religion is different from pseudoscience, and Mormonism especially has neat-o religious experiments that are just like science." Um, no they're not. These religious experiments are more like pseudoscience than most other religions even, because they can persuade the follower into thinking he's doing something like a scientific experiment when really he's not.

Which review came up because Vegas invited Maklelan to read Sagan's book.

In any case, I think it is good to keep in mind that there is a difference between faith and science (perhaps I am doing a poor job of wording things). My point is mostly that both are valid ways of obtaining truth. The FARMS reveiw I linked to stated that both are incomplete methods of obtaining knowledge and I agree with that.

[_Mercury]

But finding the truth of the Book of Mormon comes before following the commandments of your imaginary friend.

Sometimes you gotta take a few steps in the dark--a leap of faith if you will. Jesus said to do His will and (thereby) know the doctrine. I think doing--experimenting on the word--is a large part of how we obtain this knowledge.

Insanity: Making the same mistake over and over again and expecting different results.

[_asbestosman]

Insanity: Making the same mistake over and over again and expecting different results.

One of these days I'll realize that a wave function always collapses to the same eigenstate.