Anti-Mormonism ineffective? So says bsix

Post by **_Jersey Girl** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:07 pm

If "anti-Mormonism" wasn't effective, there would be no apologetics.

Jersey Girl

Post by **_The Dude** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:17 pm

CaliforniaKid wrote:This is mostly true, although I think that EVs have a lot more room for liberalizing and rationalizing than the LDS do. Our entire religion revolves around the person of Jesus Christ, about whom there's so little historical information that it would be difficult to falsify any of the things EVs believe about him.

True, there's a big difference between falsifying beliefs about Joseph Smith and beliefs about Jesus Christ, but EV beliefs in Jesus Christ are rooted in the Bible, and...

It's true that Daniel is a pseudepigraphon, that a lot of sayings attributed to Jesus may not be authentic, that several Pauline epistles, the Petrine epistles, and Revelation probably were not written by the people to whom they're attributed, that most of Genesis is probably mythological... Then again, the distance between us and these texts is so great, that we have some breathing room. We can continue to believe in a literal Exodus from Egypt, for example, without too much trouble. And once you've rejected 1 Timothy as a spurious epistle (that's where the "all scripture is God-breathed" verse is found), it doesn't even matter whether we throw out certain myths.

...you've just "falsified" a good amount of the Bible. ;)

There's no more reason that our scriptures have to be inerrant. EV'ism can survive as long as the person of Jesus Christ is not utterly discredited. And like I said, it's difficult to discredit him based on the little information we have.

If only -- if only -- more EV's had such a liberal and rational belief as you, CaliforniaKid! But I'm afraid they don't. My impression, and maybe this is based on the preachings of a vocal minority, is that most EVs do believe in biblical inerrancy and a host of other falsifiable christian myths. I know the Mormons are fascinating and relatively easy targets, but the EVs have greater numbers and more power in this country. I sincerely hope you can influence them to liberalize and rationalize their beliefs. I hate the idea that I live in a nation of fundamentalist kooks.

Post by **_CaliforniaKid** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:51 pm

I hate that idea, too, Dude. And I must admit, the fundamentalist kooks are the majority in EV'ism. There are always the liberal "mainstream" Protestant churches, but unfortunately they also tend to be the boring churches. I do hope I can bring some change in EV'ism (I managed to turn a bunch of fundie friends into liberals in college), but it's difficult to speak up about this stuff in a non-academic environment-- unless somebody directly asks about it. I don't want my church to think I'm intentionally indoctrinating their youth with my liberal ideas.

Post by **_guy sajer** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:13 am

I think he underestimates the effect of information. A quick trip even to RfM will reveal a number of persons for whom "anti-Mormon" information was indeed instrumental in one's loss of belief.

It may not be large in relative terms, but in absolute terms, I think it is definitely non-trivial at worst and significant at best.

Post by **_guy sajer** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:17 am

As if Mormonism itself is effective??? Here's a church whose growth trend is flattening out, that can't keep around two-thirds of its members interested, and which still, after 170 some odd years, tops out at an amazing .001% of the world population.

It seems a bit disingenuous to crow about the ineffectiveness of anti-Mormonism when Mormonism itself is so incredibly ineffective.

Post by **_asbestosman** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:28 am

guy sajer wrote:after 170 some odd years, tops out at an amazing .001% of the world population.

Actually I think that figure is closer to .18% of the world population--not that it substantually challenges your comment.

Post by **_The Dude** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:41 am

Nice graph, asbestosman.

It's kind of depressing to me that CaliforniaKid didn't dispute my comment about the number of "fundamentalist kooks" in his congregation. I was kinda' hoping for a graph showing that I had the wrong impression about the majority of EVs. It's a bummer, man.

Post by **_Who Knows** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:53 am

Looks like the first half of a bell curve to me. ;)

Post by **_The Dude** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:00 am

Who Knows wrote:Looks like the first half of a bell curve to me. ;)

Nice!

Post by **_guy sajer** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:36 am

asbestosman wrote:
guy sajer wrote:after 170 some odd years, tops out at an amazing .001% of the world population.

Actually I think that figure is closer to .18% of the world population--not that it substantually challenges your comment.

D'oh, you are correct. I estimate 12,000,000 Mormons and 6,000,00000 world population, which equals .002, which equals .2%.

I guess the secret's out: I suck at math.

Thanks A-man for setting me straight.