Gordon B. Hinckley's anti-Christian remark

[_Fortigurn]

You have the intellectual capacity of a Gummy Bear.

Dear me, and here I was agreeing with you. Cogs, do you have any idea how unChristlike the vast bulk of your behaviour is? Can you honestly justify your repeated gratuitous insults?

[Guest]

This remark by Gordon B. Hinckley caught my ear during General Conference:

"When the emperor Constantine was converted to Christianity, he became aware of the divisiveness among the clergy concerning the nature of Deity. In an attempt to overcome this he gathered the eminent divines of the day to Nicaea in the year 325. Each participant was given opportunity to state his views. The argument only grew more heated. When a definition could not be reached, a compromise was made. It came to be known as the Nicene Creed, and its basic elements are recited by most of the Christian faithful.

"Personally I cannot understand it. To me the creed is confusing.

"How deeply grateful I am that we of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith, who, while yet a boy, spoke with God the Eternal Father and His Beloved Son, the Risen Lord."

I'm sure this went completely unnoticed by TBMs, but this is the type of negativity that Mormons are highly sensitive to when it is directed toward them, yet they engage in it toward other faiths on a fairly regular basis. Imagine if Pope Benedict stood in front of a large gathering of Catholics and briefly summarized the various versions of the First Visions then told his followers, "Personally I cannot understand it. To me Joseph Smith's multiple accounts of seeing God and Jesus are confusing. How deeply grateful I am that we of this Church do not rely on one man's opinion concerning the nature of Deity."

It may seem like a minor attack, but it is an official statement coming from the church leader.

And did anyone else find Hinckley's bolded comments above ironic. The Mormon church doesn't rely on man-made statements regarding deity because their knowledge comes from Joseph Smith? WTF?

GBH's statements in the first paragraph are a matter of common historical fact that any competent biblical scholar, whether of Christian background or secular, could tell you as a matter or settled history. The Nicene Creed was in fact a compromise that grew out of a bitter and divisive battle over Christology, primarily between tha Athanasians and the Arians, that went on throughout the 3rd and 4th centuries, and not a shred of it is biblical. Hence, what we have here is not GBH attacking "Christianity" (whatever one might mean by that term in the era in which the Creed was formulated) but a brazen accretion to what was left of it derived primarily from neo-Platonism.

If one cannot tell the difference between "attacking" another religion (what goes on here, primarily), and principled disagreement with its teachings and voicing an opinion that one is happy and relieved not to be so deceived, then one should probably not be in the arena of ideas in which these kinds of debates take place, as the muddying of waters and poisoning of wells will be the only result.

Obviously most religious groups, not based in Salt Lake City, don't mind someone having a difference of opinion. However, LDS are hypersensitive to any religious group pointing out the problems with their history, but they have no problem pointing out issues in other group's history. Talking about the multiple accounts of Joseph's first vision to discredit the church is considered by most TBMs to be an anti-mormon attack. I'm simply pointing out a double standard, and I was also pointing out the irony in Hinckley's comment that the LDS church doesn't rely on man-made statements regarding deity because LDS get their knowledge from Joseph Smith. Do you have any comment on that?

[_Mr. Coffee]

"How deeply grateful I am that we of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith[/b], who, while yet a boy, spoke with God the Eternal Father and His Beloved Son, the Risen Lord."

I wonder if the sheer iriony of his statement escaped Mr Hinkley. He is saying that other branches of Christianity are false because their concepty of deiety comes from men, but the LDS concept is okiefine because it came from a man.

This is as retarded as if I went around telling people that I only drive Ford F Series pickups because I don't want to drive a foriegn made truck, even though the chassis, engine, electronics, body paneling, and in most cases the entire truck are manufactured overseas (The bulk of US sold F Series trucks are now assembled in Mexico, so essentially I bought a Mexican truck with a US branding logo on it).

[_SatanWasSetUp]

"How deeply grateful I am that we of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith[/b], who, while yet a boy, spoke with God the Eternal Father and His Beloved Son, the Risen Lord."

I wonder if the sheer iriony of his statement escaped Mr Hinkley. He is saying that other branches of Christianity are false because their concepty of deiety comes from men, but the LDS concept is okiefine because it came from a man.

This is as retarded as if I went around telling people that I only drive Ford F Series pickups because I don't want to drive a foriegn made truck, even though the chassis, engine, electronics, body paneling, and in most cases the entire truck are manufactured overseas (The bulk of US sold F Series trucks are now assembled in Mexico, so essentially I bought a Mexican truck with a US branding logo on it).

Actually, I think it's more rediculous than that. It's like saying your truck is better because it's not a Ford. It's a Ford F-Series.

[_Yoda]

You have the intellectual capacity of a Gummy Bear.

I've always liked gummy bears. They're cute! :)

[_moksha]

You have the intellectual capacity of a Gummy Bear.

Dear me, and here I was agreeing with you.

Could this merely be his way of acknowledging your agreement? If so, it was a compliment from Coggin's POV.

[_Jason Bourne]

"How deeply grateful I am that we of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith[/b], who, while yet a boy, spoke with God the Eternal Father and His Beloved Son, the Risen Lord."

I wonder if the sheer iriony of his statement escaped Mr Hinkley. He is saying that other branches of Christianity are false because their concepty of deiety comes from men, but the LDS concept is okiefine because it came from a man.

This is as retarded as if I went around telling people that I only drive Ford F Series pickups because I don't want to drive a foriegn made truck, even though the chassis, engine, electronics, body paneling, and in most cases the entire truck are manufactured overseas (The bulk of US sold F Series trucks are now assembled in Mexico, so essentially I bought a Mexican truck with a US branding logo on it).

Clearly GBH's point is the information Joseph Smith shared was direct revelation, from God to man, and the creed was not revelation but a formula made by debate and concessions.

[_Fortigurn]

You have the intellectual capacity of a Gummy Bear.

Dear me, and here I was agreeing with you.

Could this merely be his way of acknowledging your agreement? If so, it was a compliment from Coggin's POV.

I'll try to change mental gears without destroying the clutch.

[_Mr. Coffee]

Clearly GBH's point is the information Joseph Smith shared was direct revelation, from God to man, and the creed was not revelation but a formula made by debate and concessions.

Doesn't matter if it's dirrect revelation or indirrect interpretation, JB. GBH is still saying that "there's is bad because men wrote it down, but ours is good because Joe Smith said so".

[_Gazelam]

The statement is that the Catholic church (and those that are mere branchs of it) came to their conclusion about God through commitee. We have our knowledge concerning God by a personal appearance being made. That is what he is saying.