I beg, I implore all critics of the church here to take seriously Moroni's challenge. I now know the truth, and the truth has set me free. If a bigoted, militant, closed minded secular humanist like myself could be brought out of darkness unto light; to grasp the iron rod and partake of the fruit of the Tree of Life, so could any here.
As Carl told me, "You just have to get over the unverifiable and scientifically unfalsifiable assumption that there is nothing beyond the material universe." Its a prejudice, and a very convenient one, for us mortal human beings here to have, but we just need to get over it.
Oh, and by the way, don't listen to Elder Packer or to Elder Bednar unless they are the real Packer and Bednar, and not some smart ass little provocateur playing adolescent head games because someone spilled Cool Aid in the Playstation and their attention span isn't well enough developed to do serious reading.
Beware.
RD
An Observation
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_Bond...James Bond
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:49 am
You know Dick (a.k.a. Cogs), a parody only works if you truly act like the person, thus pointing out their natural flaws. It does no good to take on a public persona and act completely different. Then it just looks foolish.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
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_Coggins7
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:25 am
But Bond, Dawkins has had a complete conversion experience; a complete change of heart, and has "no more desire to do evil, but to do good continually." He's been born of God. Hence, the reckless, simplistic rhetoric and smarm we see in his recent book will not be seen while he remains in this forum.
Oh oh...I can feel it coming on again...
Oh oh...I can feel it coming on again...
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_marg
Coggins7 wrote:But Bond, Dawkins has had a complete conversion experience; a complete change of heart, and has "no more desire to do evil, but to do good continually." He's been born of God. Hence, the reckless, simplistic rhetoric and smarm we see in his recent book will not be seen while he remains in this forum.
Oh oh...I can feel it coming on again...
Right, so you are going to continue to make fun of Mormonism are you and show just how irrational it is, through Dawkins. Well at least you appreciate how irrational it is.
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_marg
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_Coggins7
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You have a problem with evidence and reasoning from it?
No, but as my Doppleganger pointed out, I do have a problem with a priori philosophical assumptions that leap far beyond the limits of logical reasoning into areas well beyond the perceptual limits imposed by the methodology of critical reasoning itself. What lies beyond those perceptual limits? Well, since rational thought processes cannot themselves provide any answer, one is stuck either with throwing up the hands and assuming that the inherent perceptual limitations imposed by the structure of critical thought itself defines what is perceivable, or one can open one's mind to the possibility that the perceptual limitations of the human mind and any intellectual disciplines constructed to negotiate aspects of the phenomenal world our senses are capable of receiving and processing are real, and that levels of reality may exist outside our own perceptual limitations for which the methodologies and intellectual tools we have developed, based as they are in the very perceptual limitations that govern the range and depth of our experience, are inadequate as tools by which we can access and comprehend those phenomena.
Our perceptual range as beings is severely limited both by our environment (what we expect to perceive) as well as by the inherent structure of our organism (how we perceive).
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_The Dude
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Bond...James Bond wrote:You know Dick (a.k.a. Cogs), a parody only works if you truly act like the person, thus pointing out their natural flaws. It does no good to take on a public persona and act completely different. Then it just looks foolish.
Yeah, but give credit where it is due. Coggins thought of it first (LOL) and it's a pretty funny retaliation to the Packer and Bednar parodies. Not subtle or believable, but worth a good, one-time laugh.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
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_Coggins7
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_Mephitus
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Im a bit sleepy at the time of writing this, so my spelling will be off, but here goes.
ROFL, ok cog, now your in my territory. The "Moroni Challenge" was the exact thing that made me start questioning the church. So heres a report on exactly why that is the WORST reason in the world to believe ANYTHING!
The moroni challenge works on the principle of whats called a self induced hypnotic emotional trigger. Now, when i say hypnotism, most people think of it as "hogwash" or some form of mysticism. And in the way that many attempt to portray it, i would agree. But at its heart, it is a methodology of manipulating the basic workings of the mind towards a goal. Now this can be a very simple thing. Such as a mother napping in a room across from her child. A train can go past and nothing will wake her, but the moment her child begins crying she is instantly awake. That is hypnotism at its heart. Its a trigger installed in the brain, either by yourself or someone else, to instill a specific emotional or physical responce.
That is exactly what the moroni challenge is. Setting up a situation under which conditions favor only a single expected outcome. The entire setting is designed to make sure that, "if you don't get this answer, then you arent trying hard enough to convince yourself." You are basicly setting up everything you need to creat a self-hypnotic suggestion. Its completely flawed from the get-go. Rather than having something to which you can compare the results, you are told there is only a single result that can occur. Anything else is a personal flaw.
So basicly you are telling people, its YOUR fault if you don't get what i did. Your not smart enough, not good enough, not spiritual enough, not trying enough, etc. By resulting to personal attacks such as this, you curb the idea that the question was flawed from the beginning or that the information was not complete. Now if we put this in context of learning, when in grade school we learned basic math. 2+2=4, we where told this and shown through examples that are outside the proffered question. The moroni challenge only has a single allowed place to which you can go for support of the issue. (can we say circular logic? "I am your king because i say i am.")
In the end, its all very one sided. If you don't get the "right" answer, you try again, and again. Untill you basicly wire your brain to accept the answer it has been trained to do during this entire ordeal. The entire thing is designed to give you a subtle hypnotic suggestion to obtain an emotional responce to specific stimuli.
For a great example of this, do a bit of searching for "pavlovian response".
ROFL, ok cog, now your in my territory. The "Moroni Challenge" was the exact thing that made me start questioning the church. So heres a report on exactly why that is the WORST reason in the world to believe ANYTHING!
The moroni challenge works on the principle of whats called a self induced hypnotic emotional trigger. Now, when i say hypnotism, most people think of it as "hogwash" or some form of mysticism. And in the way that many attempt to portray it, i would agree. But at its heart, it is a methodology of manipulating the basic workings of the mind towards a goal. Now this can be a very simple thing. Such as a mother napping in a room across from her child. A train can go past and nothing will wake her, but the moment her child begins crying she is instantly awake. That is hypnotism at its heart. Its a trigger installed in the brain, either by yourself or someone else, to instill a specific emotional or physical responce.
That is exactly what the moroni challenge is. Setting up a situation under which conditions favor only a single expected outcome. The entire setting is designed to make sure that, "if you don't get this answer, then you arent trying hard enough to convince yourself." You are basicly setting up everything you need to creat a self-hypnotic suggestion. Its completely flawed from the get-go. Rather than having something to which you can compare the results, you are told there is only a single result that can occur. Anything else is a personal flaw.
So basicly you are telling people, its YOUR fault if you don't get what i did. Your not smart enough, not good enough, not spiritual enough, not trying enough, etc. By resulting to personal attacks such as this, you curb the idea that the question was flawed from the beginning or that the information was not complete. Now if we put this in context of learning, when in grade school we learned basic math. 2+2=4, we where told this and shown through examples that are outside the proffered question. The moroni challenge only has a single allowed place to which you can go for support of the issue. (can we say circular logic? "I am your king because i say i am.")
In the end, its all very one sided. If you don't get the "right" answer, you try again, and again. Untill you basicly wire your brain to accept the answer it has been trained to do during this entire ordeal. The entire thing is designed to give you a subtle hypnotic suggestion to obtain an emotional responce to specific stimuli.
For a great example of this, do a bit of searching for "pavlovian response".
One nice thing is, ze game of love is never called on account of darkness - Pepe Le Pew