Has Allen Wyatt Screwed Up Again?

[_Mister Scratch]

Allen Wyatt, the webmaster of FAIR, and no stranger to public relations debacles, has tried to bolster the apologetic effort against the EV DVD by appearing in a film, which you can view online:

Click here to see Allen Wyatt screwing Up

While he should be patting himself on the back for bravely defending the faith, it seems that he has made a critical mistake. Unfortunately, Bro. Wyatt appears to have been caught in the difficult position of allowing himself to be filmed while making declarations about LDS doctrine. As we all know, within Internet Mormon/apologetic circles, this is a huge no-no. It turns out that a poster on the fittingly named MADboard has called him on it:

Wyatt explicitly claims that Mormons believe that God was God and that Jesus was the Son of God from eternity past.

Isn't this a weeeee bit misleading?

"In order to understand the subject of the dead, for the consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the vail, so that you may see." - King Follett Discourse

Not everyone in the Mormon church--indeed, not even the majority of LDS members--understands this the neo-orthodox way.

Silly Allen Wyatt, doesn't he know that the LDS Church has no systematic theology? Gee whiz! That is supposed to be Lesson Numero Uno in the Mopologetics 101 handbook!

Anyways, as you can imagine, things only got ugly from there. Here is smac, engaging in de rigueur Mopologetic smear tactics:

Folks, let's remember than Aaron is that wonderful paragon of virtue and Christian goodness that has repeatedly posed the suggestion that, and I quote, Mormon thinking "allows for the possibility that God the Father was once a homosexual drag queen."

[. . .]

So when Aaron presumes to lecture others on being "misleading," we can take that with a wee bit of salt.

-Smac

Riiiiiiight. And when Allen Wyatt presumes to make declarations on doctrine, we can take that with a wee bit of salt, since he has shown himself to be manipulative and dishonest from a PR-standpoint? (Hello.... The savegrantpalmer.com debacle anyone?)

Here is a classic from Obiwan, who seems to be either a clone of or sockpuppet for Hammer:

No, it's NOT at all misleading. YOU are in fact the one being misleading by stating that statement from Joseph in the KFD is LDS Theology, when it is not, and never has been.

(emphasis ibid)

Finally, the Man himself shows up. It is fascinating to see his response:

Wow. I come late to the party and find out that Aaron thinks I am being misleading.

Aaron, could you specifically explain why you think I am being misleading? To make it simple for you, I've boiled down the choices:

1. Wyatt is being misleading because he doesn't know what Mormons really believe.
2. Wyatt is being misleading because he does know what Mormons really believe, but won't say it publicly.
3. Wyatt is being misleading because he is Mormon.

Feel free to pick any number of choices that most correctly express your feelings. Then, if you could kindly do the following in the interest of greater understanding:

A. If you picked #1, explain why you think this given the fact I've been a Mormon (and studied Mormonism) longer than you've been alive.

B. If you picked #2, explain why, without the apparent ability to read my mind, you think me guilty of lying.

C. If you picked #3, explain why Mormons, if they are congenitally predisposed to being misleading, are even worth talking to.

Finally, for the edification of all, you might explain why you refuse to allow me a salvific relationship with my Savior and would deny me the grace that you proclaim He freely gives.

-Allen

So, my question is: Why is Bro. Wyatt in such a huff at this? C'mon, now---is he really all bent out of shape simply because his videotaped commentary has been labeled "misleading"? Or is it rather that this very important representative of LDS apologetics has been caught doing the unpardonable: i.e., declaring doctrine? Such hubris! What next, will he begin receiving and recording revelations!? Someone from the COB needs to call him to repentance ASAP!

[_Sethbag]

The link isn't working. It just brings up a search page on Google videos, not the video you are trying to have us see.

[Anonymous]

As posted by livy in the Celestial Kingdom. Here you go Seth:

You can view it here:
The Whole Shebang

Or, you can view the first portion here:
Part 1

The second 10 minutes here:
Part 2

And the third here:
Part 3

[_grayskull]

Why does Smac have a problem with the possibility of God having been a homosexual drag queen? Cannot the homosexual drag queen repent like everyone else and receive exaltation in the highest heaven? Isn't Smac mocking the power of the atonement? Why doesn't he just write, "The plan of salvation" on a piece of paper and spit on it?

[_Mister Scratch]

As posted by livy in the Celestial Kingdom. Here you go Seth:

You can view it here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4400&hl=en

Or, you can view the first portion here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2479&hl=en

The second 10 minutes here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1374&hl=en

And the third here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8460&hl=en

Ah yes, there we go. Thanks, Bond. (I was trying very very hard not to upset Bryan Inks.)

[_Jersey Girl]

I just finished watching the entire video. There were issues that remain unaddressed however, I do think that in what was presented that Allen Wyatt did an all around good job of it.

Big time mistake linking to FAIR though.

Jersey Girl

[_Mister Scratch]

I just finished watching the entire video. There were issues that remain unaddressed however, I do think that in what was presented that Allen Wyatt did an all around good job of it.

Big time mistake linking to FAIR though.

Jersey Girl

Yes. I think he would have been better off if he'd simply kept his mouth shut. Bad things tend to happen when Bro. Wyatt "goes public" with his various Mopologetic views.

[_Jersey Girl]

I just finished watching the entire video. There were issues that remain unaddressed however, I do think that in what was presented that Allen Wyatt did an all around good job of it.

Big time mistake linking to FAIR though.

Jersey Girl

Yes. I think he would have been better off if he'd simply kept his mouth shut. Bad things tend to happen when Bro. Wyatt "goes public" with his various Mopologetic views.

I should have been more complete in what I said. I think that it was a huge mistake linking to FAIR because FAIR still links to the MAD board. If and when folks end up at MAD they'll see a different side of the attacking going on.

Foot in mouth.

Jersey Girl

[_Dr. Shades]

Wyatt explicitly claims that Mormons believe that God was God and that Jesus was the Son of God from eternity past.

Isn't this a weeeee bit misleading?

[SNIP!]

Not everyone in the Mormon church--indeed, not even the majority of LDS members--understands this the neo-orthodox way.

HOLY COW!! This Wyatt guy is a bigger buffoon than even I had given him credit for--no small feat!

Interestingly enough, he makes it easy for us by allowing us to select precisely why:

1. Wyatt is being misleading because he doesn't know what Mormons really believe.
2. Wyatt is being misleading because he does know what Mormons really believe, but won't say it publicly.
3. Wyatt is being misleading because he is Mormon.

[SNIP!]

A. If you picked #1, explain why you think this given the fact I've been a Mormon (and studied Mormonism) longer than you've been alive.

B. If you picked #2, explain why, without the apparent ability to read my mind, you think me guilty of lying.

C. If you picked #3, explain why Mormons, if they are congenitally predisposed to being misleading, are even worth talking to.

What kind of idiots does he take us all for? OF COURSE IT'S #2!! I simply cannot believe that even his Internet Mormon haze has blinded him to the OBVIOUS FACT that he's heard in church, ad nauseum, that God was once a man like us and that we, too, are following the same plan of salvation. There's no doubt in my mind that he himself even taught the doctrine numerous times to various and sundry classes. If he so easily forgets, then what on earth does he think the sentence "the Lord's course is one eternal round" means?

I clearly explain on my website on this topic that each group--the Internet Mormons and the Chapel Mormons, respectively--denies the existence of the other group and believes its doctrines are the one and only "true" Mormonism. Wyatt's mind-bendingly false assertion is just the latest example of this phenomenon.

Mr. Wyatt, if you're reading this, then I apologize for actually paying attention in church.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Wyatt explicitly claims that Mormons believe that God was God and that Jesus was the Son of God from eternity past.

Isn't this a weeeee bit misleading?

[SNIP!]

Not everyone in the Mormon church--indeed, not even the majority of LDS members--understands this the neo-orthodox way.

HOLY COW!! This Wyatt guy is a bigger buffoon than even I had given him credit for--no small feat!

He apparently missed the priesthood class a few years ago that discussed Lesson #4 in the Brigham Young manual. The italicized intro to that lesson (on p. 29 of the manual) states:

God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost constitute the Godhead. President Brigham Young taught the Latter-day Saints to worship God the Father and address prayers to Him in the name of Jesus Christ. He taught further that God the Father was once a man on another planet who "passed the ordeals we are now passing through; he has received an experience, has suffered and enjoyed, and knows all that we know regarding the toils, sufferings, life and death of this mortality." (italics in original; bold mine for emphasis).

In the "Suggestions for Study" section of that lesson (p. 34), it states:

The doctrine that God once was a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this Church. How do you feel, knowing that God, through His own experience, "knows all that we know regarding the toils [and] sufferings" of mortality? (bold mine for emphasis).

In addition, the 'God was once a man' doctrine is repeated in the Gospel Principles manual used to teach new members and investigators.