Gordon B. Hinckley's anti-Christian remark

[_Coggins7]

Were nomi to "prove" beyond any reasonable doubt that God existed, and that the LDS church was the living, authorized institution, unique and distinguishable from all other institutions, within which is found his pure gospel and its powers and ordinances, and that the First Vision really happened, guess what Bond?

You'd still be a vigorous critic of the church and you'd still be occupying the position you occupy here as a gadfly to the defenders of that church. The proof of that pudding, is the position and attitudinal stance you have staked out in your post above.

Neither facts nor reality ever stopped a determined believer in something from continuing on as a determined true believer. As Saul Bellow said:

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is great

And for the inveterate critics of the Restored Gospel, that need is overwhelming indeed.

[_Runtu]

Neither facts nor reality ever stopped a determined believer in something from continuing on as a determined true believer. As Saul Bellow said:

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is great

Is it possible that one can be well-educated in regards to Mormonism and reach different conclusions than you have?

[_Who Knows]

Were nomi to "prove" beyond any reasonable doubt that God existed, and that the LDS church was the living, authorized institution, unique and distinguishable from all other institutions, within which is found his pure gospel and its powers and ordinances, and that the First Vision really happened, guess what Bond?

You'd still be a vigorous critic of the church and you'd still be occupying the position you occupy here as a gadfly to the defenders of that church. The proof of that pudding, is the position and attitudinal stance you have staked out in your post above.

Neither facts nor reality ever stopped a determined believer in something from continuing on as a determined true believer. As Saul Bellow said:

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is great

And for the inveterate critics of the Restored Gospel, that need is overwhelming indeed.

That's a fun little rejoinder often used by believers. Unfortunately for you, it has zero basis in reality.

But feel free to keep telling yourself it does (if it helps your 'testimony').

[_Runtu]

That's a fun little rejoinder often used by believers. Unfortunately for you, it has zero basis in reality.

But feel free to keep telling yourself it does (if it helps your 'testimony').

When I read it, my irony meter went off the charts.

[_Bond...James Bond]

My comments in bold within quote.

Were nomi to "prove" beyond any reasonable doubt that God existed, and that the LDS church was the living, authorized institution, unique and distinguishable from all other institutions, within which is found his pure gospel and its powers and ordinances, and that the First Vision really happened, guess what Bond?[What?]

You'd still be a vigorous critic of the church and you'd still be occupying the position you occupy here as a gadfly to the defenders of that church.[Probably] The proof of that pudding [yummy], is the position and attitudinal stance you have staked out in your post above.[Don't say "stake"...I'm hungry as it is]

Neither facts nor reality ever stopped a determined believer in something [Mormonism] from continuing on as a determined true believer. As Saul Bellow said:

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance [of reality] when the need for illusion [in Mormonism] is great

And for the inveterate critics of the Restored Gospel, that need [for sanity amongst all this insanity] is overwhelming indeed.

[_Coggins7]

Is it possible that one can be well-educated in regards to Mormonism and reach different conclusions than you have?

Certainly its possible, but to the best of my knowledge, the Church has never taught that being well educated in regards to the Church is adequate to either conversion or faithfulness and valiance to the Gospel after such conversion. intellectual knowledge is an inherent and necessary component of course, but inadequate.

One's testimony does not come through education in the doctrines or history of the Church, but through the power of the Holy Spirit, or through revelation, and this clears up, at the outset, most of the problems one is ever going to encounter regarding church history and doctrine from a strictly intellectual standpoint.

[_Mister Scratch]

Is it possible that one can be well-educated in regards to Mormonism and reach different conclusions than you have?

Certainly its possible, but to the best of my knowledge, the Church has never taught that being well educated in regards to the Church is adequate to either conversion or faithfulness and valiance to the Gospel after such conversion. intellectual knowledge is an inherent and necessary component of course, but inadequate.

That's not true at all, Loran, and in fact the Brethren have counseled against some types of learning, as evidenced by BKP's infamous, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater than the Intellect." The real truth is that the Brethren would prefer that members remain in the dark on a number of subjects.

One's testimony does not come through education in the doctrines or history of the Church, but through the power of the Holy Spirit, or through revelation, and this clears up, at the outset, most of the problems one is ever going to encounter regarding church history and doctrine from a strictly intellectual standpoint.

Sadly, this isn't the case. To reiterate what BKP said, "Some kinds of truth aren't very useful." The Brethren would prefer that we all remained ignorant on certain subjects.

[_Coggins7]

That's not true at all, Loran, and in fact the Brethren have counseled against some types of learning, as evidenced by BKP's infamous, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater than the Intellect." The real truth is that the Brethren would prefer that members remain in the dark on a number of subjects.

Quote:
One's testimony does not come through education in the doctrines or history of the Church, but through the power of the Holy Spirit, or through revelation, and this clears up, at the outset, most of the problems one is ever going to encounter regarding church history and doctrine from a strictly intellectual standpoint.

Sadly, this isn't the case. To reiterate what BKP said, "Some kinds of truth aren't very useful."

The real truth is that nothing in what the Brethren have said in these texts you mention actually say or imply what you claim for them (The Brethren would prefer that we all remained ignorant on certain subjects.). The truth is that you are a liar, that you lie in wait to deceive, and you are an offender for a word seeking to take advantage of every uncrossed T and undotted I that you might defame and impugn these men.

One day a light's going to come on and there aren't going to be any baseboards to run to. What then Scratch?

What then.

[_Mister Scratch]

That's not true at all, Loran, and in fact the Brethren have counseled against some types of learning, as evidenced by BKP's infamous, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater than the Intellect." The real truth is that the Brethren would prefer that members remain in the dark on a number of subjects.

Quote:
One's testimony does not come through education in the doctrines or history of the Church, but through the power of the Holy Spirit, or through revelation, and this clears up, at the outset, most of the problems one is ever going to encounter regarding church history and doctrine from a strictly intellectual standpoint.

Sadly, this isn't the case. To reiterate what BKP said, "Some kinds of truth aren't very useful."

The real truth is that nothing in what the Brethren have said in these texts you mention actually say or imply what you claim for them (The Brethren would prefer that we all remained ignorant on certain subjects.).

No, Loran. The evidence is overwhelming that Church leaders want people to remain in the dark on a number of subjects. This includes things such as:
---Church finances
---the Temple Ceremony
---negative aspects of Church history
---limited availability of the CHI
---minutes of the Brethren's discussions
---the goings-on of the SCMC
---Etc., etc.

I would be interested in seeing your "serious minded" evidence that makes this stuff go away. I will wait patiently for you to enlighten me.

The truth is that you are a liar, that you lie in wait to deceive, and you are an offender for a word seeking to take advantage of every uncrossed T and undotted I that you might defame and impugn these men.

That's not true. As they are men of God, I expect that they live up to the highest standards imaginable.

One day a light's going to come on and there aren't going to be any baseboards to run to. What then Scratch?

What then.

Basically, the only response you have is to condemn me to Perdition? Ah, I see. Bravo, Loran!

[_Coggins7]

No, Loran. The evidence is overwhelming that Church leaders want people to remain in the dark on a number of subjects. This includes things such as:
---Church finances
---the Temple Ceremony---negative aspects of Church history
---limited availability of the CHI
---minutes of the Brethren's discussions
---the goings-on of the SCMC
---Etc., etc.

Uh...you forgot the frequent visits to the bar and then to the Gay bath house.

I would be interested in seeing your "serious minded" evidence that makes this stuff go away. I will wait patiently for you to enlighten me.

No you wouldn't...

That's not true. As they are men of God, I expect that they live up to the highest standards imaginable.

Another little white one. As you don't believe they are men of God, it follows that there are no standards to which they could be held based upon that criteria.

One day a light's going to come on and there aren't going to be any baseboards to run to. What then Scratch?

What then.

Basically, the only response you have is to condemn me to Perdition? Ah, I see. Bravo, Loran!

[/quote]


No, no. I didn't condemn you to Perdition, only to the baseboards where other household pests lie in wait. Perdition only becomes a live issue at the end, and we, still here in Midgard, are not as yet at the end.

Just the baseboards will do for the time being.