In light of the massacre in Virginia....

[_Bond...James Bond]

I started a poll in the off topic forum on gun ownership.

Please Vote Here

[_harmony]

Jason, I have to disagree. We cannot keep simply dismissing these people as 'lone nuts'. We have to face the fact that certain societies regularly produce these people, whereas other societies do not. There have been murderers and psychos since man has walked the earth, but they are a lot more common in some areas than in others. Serial killers as we know them are a modern urban phenomenon ich is less than 150 years old. Believe it or not, there are countries on this planet in which no child has to go to a school with metal detectors and armed security guards. Any society which has reached that stage is seriously sick.

First, in this country the places where kids go to school with metal detectors and security guards are few. However, I agree that society and our culture my foster the opportunites for such violence to a certian extent, but they blame still lies at the feet of he who pulled the trigger. Choices are involved. There are lots of ways for such a troubled soul to find help.

Define what you mean by "few", please. Because virtually every high school in my area has metal detectors and security staff. Schools in my area have suffered from children bringing guns to school, killing teachers and students.

It is a very difficult thing for a sleepy little town to all of a sudden be torn apart by gunfire, police sirens screaming, and national news teams. Recovering from that takes years. It's like being dropped right into a movie. That which is fun to watch and then the lights come up and everything is normal is not at all fun to live through. It says something about the resilience of the community that it thrives once again, after that sort of tragedy.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Wow! I just noticed today (4/20) is the anniversary of Columbine. Talk about a bad week.

[_Who Knows]

Wow! I just noticed today (4/20)...

Time to light up some herb.

[_Mr. Coffee]

Wow! I just noticed today (4/20)...

Time to light up some herb.

Puff puff, pass, Humphery...

[_Roger Morrison]

Sorry i didn't get here sooner. Been spending too much time in the Celestial, where interestingly there has been no mention of this tragedy. I share with all, the sorrows of those directly affected. As well the concerns of resposible folks to ask questions and seek answers.

Pasted below is a section from Spong's concerns. He has some deep roots in the area and in VT directly. I hope they add a bit of light to the darkness in which this happened...

...We know that we are mortal and destined to die. Nothing we do can change that. God will not stop it. Prayer will not make us safe. Good deeds designed to win the approval of the heavenly parent will not guarantee that we live another day if someone marks us for death, or even if we find ourselves accidentally in the wrong place at the wrong time. That is the nature of our humanity. Perhaps the time has come to stop pretending that it is otherwise and to...learn to live courageously and creatively in the face of constant insecurity.

I believe that is what faith ultimately means. Faith has little to do with proper believing or with the ability to say yes to creedal and doctrinal assertions. It will not be found in saluting pitiable claims that some leader is infallible or that some sacred text is inerrant. Faith ultimately has something to do with being, with embracing the unknown, with a willingness to step into the future and with the ability to live each day with integrity, even in the face of the anxiety of humanity which we never escape...

Maybe not too relavent... He was referring to our general quest for security, which leads often to putting faith in the wrong things...such as bolstered police protection rather than remedying the causes of concern.

This is what i think Fort keeps pointing to. I tend to agree with him... Such is symptomatic of denial of 'us' contributing to the problem... 'We' must be protected from them...

Cho was not a "wing-nut". He was a pathetically unhappy, dysfunctional person. The causes and reasons of/for his condition are essential to be understood...

Might he have found comfort in a 'cult' where he was validated and "loved"? How many are there who declare they are only happy in the group that succours them, who if not there might be a threat and danger?

Environment cannot be discounted as of little influence. Next to an individual's genetic disposition environment/nurture is paramount... To be in ignorance, or denial of this is catastrophic when honestly seeking the cause/effect relationship of human events... good or bad.

VERY difficult to imagine the foot-ball mentality, and our must-win competetiveness as being anything but "God's" way to greatness... Enough already, already... This was a horrific heart breaking event. Warm regards, Roger

[_Jason Bourne]

Define what you mean by "few", please. Because virtually every high school in my area has metal detectors and security staff. Schools in my area have suffered from children bringing guns to school, killing teachers and students.

Virtually no schools where I live have metal detectors and security.

Sure the modern world is fraught with problems. The culture we live in at least in the US can be brutal to misfits especially kids. There is a song by Rush called Subdivisions that aptly describes the problem of modern society. Fort thinks that there are people along the way that are culpabel for this fellows actions. As I ponder it maybe he is right. Bullies, mean girls and boys, the in crowd that brutalized others and so on. While not a misfit as a kid I was not in the in crowd either and had my share of getting picked on. And I punched a few kids out along the way and got beat up a few time too as a result. Thus I always tried to teach my kids the golden rule as well as to reach out to the kids who gets teased. They may find a pretty special person. I did as a teen when I befriended a kid who was a bit "odd." He became one of my best teen friends. Still is a friend.

.

[_Trinity]

One of the commentators mentioned that a national college magazine polled all students and 50% of them mentioned they had been too depressed to function at least once during any given term. A full 9% reported they were suicidal. Did anyone else see that?

If that is true, there is definitely a broader problem that is causing these stresses that will trip the most severe of mental illness.

[_Fortigurn]

Fort thinks that there are people along the way that are culpabel for this fellows actions.

I haven't said that. I said he is culpable for his actions. Other people along the way are culpable (to varying degrees), for contributing to an environment which was destructive to his psychology, which in turn contributed to the unfortunate event we see now.

[_skippy the dead]

Here is an interesting article that looks at the issue of societal causes from different angles. There's no real consensus here, although it's interesting to note the history of mass killings.