Faith Revisited

[DrW]

It has grown in my mind over the years that "faith" is little understood, but is bandied about as the essence of Christianity that every 'believer' is simply born to understand.

Not so. "Faith" is more than that. IT is THE essence of life, that when practiced/applied bears the fruit of life that prospers individuals, and communities...

That i'm not alone in this thinking was confirmed by an e-mail from my daughter, of a letter to her from 'Fletch'. "Fletch" is a mentor-type in the LA area. (I think?) His address: fletchrainey@earthlink.net It is his letter, to a group of his 'friends', that is paste below. I have bolded things that are firmly in my belief:

The very reason for the Law behind Feelingization is contained in Paul's statement, (Heb. 1:11) "...faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen..."

If there were not a deep-seated awareness that that which you hope for or desire has substance and is possible for you to attain, it would be impossible to assume the consciousness (feeling tone) of already being or already having or already doing it!!
Read that sentence again.
Then, again.
Now, stop.
Let it sink in.
Got it? Good.
Now, read it one more time before continuing please.
It is the premise that I’ve written about before, that creation is finished, and that everything already exists that stirs you to the feeling of hope—and hope, in turn, implies EXPECTATION, and without expectation of success it would be impossible to consciously use the Law behind Feelingization.
"Evidence" is a sign of something actual...or real. Thus, this quotation means that faith is the awareness of the REALITY...the ACTUALITY of that which you assume. In other words, a conviction of the reality of things which you do not see; i.e. your mental perception of the reality of the invisible.

Consequently, it is obvious that a lack of faith means disbelief in the existence of that which you desire, right? Inasmuch as that which you experience is the faith-full reproduction of your state of consciousness, lack of faith will mean perpetual failure in any conscious use of the Law behind Feelingization. The Law we're talking about is of course, the Law of Attraction. Understand?

In all the ages of history, faith has played a major role. Big time. It permeates all the great religions of the world; it is woven all through mythology, and yet today it is almost universally misunderstood!!!

Contrary to popular opinion, the efficacy of faith is not due to the work of any outside factor. It is from first to last an activity of your own consciousness. Yours, and yours alone. If you don’t grasp anything else from anything that I’ve shared over the last few years....puh-leeze grasp that.
The Bible is full of many statements about faith; of the true meaning of which very few are aware. Here are some typical examples:
Unto us was the gospel preached, as well
as unto them: but the word preached did
not profit them, not being mixed with
faith in them that heard it.– Hebrews 4:2

In this particular quotation the "us" and "them" make it clear that all of us hear the gospel. "Gospel" I’m sure you know, means Good News. Very obviously, good news for you would be that you’ve attained your desire, yes? This is always being "preached" to you by your Infinite Self. To hear that which you desire does actually exist and you need only to accept it in consciousness is indeed...very good news.

Not "mixing with faith" means to deny the reality of that which you desire. Hence, there is no "profit" (attainment) possible.
Another...
O faithless and perverse generation, how
long shall I be with you?"– Matthew 17:17

The meaning of "faithless" has already been explained. "Perverse" means turned the wrong way; in other words...the consciousness of not being what you want to be. To be faithless, that is, to disbelieve in the reality of that which you assume, is to be perverse. "How long shall I be with you?" means that the fulfillment of your desire is predicated upon your change to the right state of consciousness. It is just as though that which you desire is telling you that it won’t be yours until you turn from being faithless and perverse to righteousness (right consciousness, remember?). Once again, righteousness is the consciousness of already being what you want to be; already having what you want to have; already doing what it is you choose to do!!!

Another...
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing
the wrath of the king: for he endured, as
seeing him who is invisible. – Hebrews 11:27

"Egypt" here means darkness, or belief in many gods (causes). The "king" symbolizes the power of outside conditions or circumstances. "He" is your concept of yourself as already being what you choose to be. "Enduring as seeing him who is invisible" means persisting in the assumption that your desire is already fulfilled!!

Thus, my dear friends, this quotation means that by persisting in the assumption that you already are the person you choose to be, already doing what it is you choose to do and already having that which you choose to have, you rise above all doubt, fear, and any belief in the power of outside conditions or circumstances; and your world inevitably, that’s right...inevitably conforms to your assumption.
Period.

End of story. Don't look at me this way...
If what I'm saying wasn't true...I wouldn't spend all this time typing. Believe that.
"You cannot fool Spiritual Law! It produces effects in exact correspondence to what is held in your consciousness."
-- Reverend Dr. Michael Beckwith

My dictionary’s definitions of faith, "the ascent of the mind or understanding to the truth"---- "unwavering adherence to principle", are so freaking pertinent that they might well have been written with the Law of Feelingization in mind. Faith does not question or doubt. Faith knows.

While i know Paul's statement is well read, and quoted, i do not think it is positively applied in religious communities (other than lip service to an after-life, forgive my synicism) IMSCO, real-faith is applied more in secular life by inventive, creative minds. That evidence speaks for its self. What is there of equal evidential impact from ecclesiastic-faith?

Being told the negatives by traditional religious types, that: "the world/humanity is growing worse," 'religious-faith' too often tends towards negs rather than positive attitudes.

This can direct people to habits and sentiments that are self destructive, and consequently influence and impose, overtly and covertly, on families and society trends not in our best interests. Increasing obeseity, personal debt, isolation, escapism into spectating rather than participation and violence can all be attributed, in some degree, to 'faulty-faith'.

That is, faith in magic, legend, and man's hysterics; rather than faith and confidence in self, others and "God's" Universe. As Jesus taught, and i see things... Warm regards, Roger

(Edited to credit Fletch as the letter author.)

[_Quantumwave]

It has grown in my mind over the years that "faith" is little understood, but is bandied about as the essence of Christianity that every 'believer' is simply born to understand.

Not so. "Faith" is more than that. IT is THE essence of life, that when practiced/applied bears the fruit of life that prospers individuals, and communities...

That I'm not alone in this thinking was confirmed by an e-mail from my daughter that is paste below. I have bolded thigs that are firmly in my belief:

The very reason for the Law behind Feelingization is contained in Paul's statement, (Heb. 1:11) "...faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen..."

If there were not a deep-seated awareness that that which you hope for or desire has substance and is possible for you to attain, it would be impossible to assume the consciousness (feeling tone) of already being or already having or already doing it!!
Read that sentence again.
Then, again.
Now, stop.
Let it sink in.
Got it? Good.
Now, read it one more time before continuing please.
It is the premise that I’ve written about before, that creation is finished, and that everything already exists that stirs you to the feeling of hope—and hope, in turn, implies EXPECTATION, and without expectation of success it would be impossible to consciously use the Law behind Feelingization.
"Evidence" is a sign of something actual...or real. Thus, this quotation means that faith is the awareness of the REALITY...the ACTUALITY of that which you assume. In other words, a conviction of the reality of things which you do not see; I.e. your mental perception of the reality of the invisible.

Consequently, it is obvious that a lack of faith means disbelief in the existence of that which you desire, right? Inasmuch as that which you experience is the faith-full reproduction of your state of consciousness, lack of faith will mean perpetual failure in any conscious use of the Law behind Feelingization. The Law we're talking about is of course, the Law of Attraction. Understand?

In all the ages of history, faith has played a major role. Big time. It permeates all the great religions of the world; it is woven all through mythology, and yet today it is almost universally misunderstood!!!

Contrary to popular opinion, the efficacy of faith is not due to the work of any outside factor. It is from first to last an activity of your own consciousness. Yours, and yours alone. If you don’t grasp anything else from anything that I’ve shared over the last few years....puh-leeze grasp that.
The Bible is full of many statements about faith; of the true meaning of which very few are aware. Here are some typical examples:
Unto us was the gospel preached, as well
as unto them: but the word preached did
not profit them, not being mixed with
faith in them that heard it.– Hebrews 4:2

In this particular quotation the "us" and "them" make it clear that all of us hear the gospel. "Gospel" I’m sure you know, means Good News. Very obviously, good news for you would be that you’ve attained your desire, yes? This is always being "preached" to you by your Infinite Self. To hear that which you desire does actually exist and you need only to accept it in consciousness is indeed...very good news.

Not "mixing with faith" means to deny the reality of that which you desire. Hence, there is no "profit" (attainment) possible.
Another...
O faithless and perverse generation, how
long shall I be with you?"– Matthew 17:17

The meaning of "faithless" has already been explained. "Perverse" means turned the wrong way; in other words...the consciousness of not being what you want to be. To be faithless, that is, to disbelieve in the reality of that which you assume, is to be perverse. "How long shall I be with you?" means that the fulfillment of your desire is predicated upon your change to the right state of consciousness. It is just as though that which you desire is telling you that it won’t be yours until you turn from being faithless and perverse to righteousness (right consciousness, remember?). Once again, righteousness is the consciousness of already being what you want to be; already having what you want to have; already doing what it is you choose to do!!!

Another...
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing
the wrath of the king: for he endured, as
seeing him who is invisible. – Hebrews 11:27

"Egypt" here means darkness, or belief in many gods (causes). The "king" symbolizes the power of outside conditions or circumstances. "He" is your concept of yourself as already being what you choose to be. "Enduring as seeing him who is invisible" means persisting in the assumption that your desire is already fulfilled!!

Thus, my dear friends, this quotation means that by persisting in the assumption that you already are the person you choose to be, already doing what it is you choose to do and already having that which you choose to have, you rise above all doubt, fear, and any belief in the power of outside conditions or circumstances; and your world inevitably, that’s right...inevitably conforms to your assumption.
Period.

End of story. Don't look at me this way...
If what I'm saying wasn't true...I wouldn't spend all this time typing. Believe that.
"You cannot fool Spiritual Law! It produces effects in exact correspondence to what is held in your consciousness."
-- Reverend Dr. Michael Beckwith

My dictionary’s definitions of faith, "the ascent of the mind or understanding to the truth"---- "unwavering adherence to principle", are so freaking pertinent that they might well have been written with the Law of Feelingization in mind. Faith does not question or doubt. Faith knows.

While I know Paul's statement is well read, and quoted, I do not think it is positively applied in religious communities (other than lip service to an after-life, forgive my synicism) IMSCO, real-faith is applied more in secular life by inventive, creative minds. That evidence speaks for its self. What is there of equal evidential impact from ecclesiastic-faith?

Being told the negatives by traditional religious types, that: "the world/humanity is growing worse," 'religious-faith' too often tends towards negs rather than positive attitudes.

This can direct people to habits and sentiments that are self destructive, and consequently influence and impose, overtly and covertly, on families and society trends not in our best interests. Increasing obeseity, personal debt, isolation, escapism into spectating rather than participation and violence can all be attributed, in some degree, to 'faulty-faith'.

That is, faith in magic, legend, and man's hysterics; rather than faith and confidence in self, others and "God's" Universe. As Jesus taught, and I see things... Warm regards, Roger

Roger…good points I generally agree with.

More of the ‘faulty-faith’ I would point out is the latter-day mentality, which creates an under-current of “no need to worry about the future, it will take care of itself”.

There are many definitions of faith, probably as many definitions as there are definers. Your definition, which is perhaps more a statement of efficacy is…

IT is THE essence of life, that when practiced/applied bears the fruit of life that prospers individuals, and communities

... and to me, you are providing a definition/efficacy of universal love.

Whether one calls it faith or universal love, when practiced properly it will indeed, "bear the fruit of life that prospers individuals, and communities".

I don’t know what your daughter’s definition of “Feelingization” is, but I would proffer a guess that it is a warm regard for everyone and everything, and to me, again, that is another term for universal love.

Your daughter’s statement…

If there were not a deep-seated awareness that that which you hope for or desire has substance and is possible for you to attain, it would be impossible to assume the consciousness (feeling tone) of already being or already having or already doing it!!

…reminds me of a statement made by a friend during an email exchange on the subject. He said I would not be able to rise from the chair I was sitting in without faith! I argued with him, but could not change his mind.

I categorize definitions of faith as falling between two extremes; at zero degrees is the Archie Bunker definition: “Faith is a belief in something no one in their right mind would believe”. At one-hundred-eighty degrees is: “Faith is the motivating force responsible for the creation of all that is”. Regard the degrees stated as polar coordinates, and you have my concept of the infinitude of possible definitions.

Your daughter’s statement…

Thus, my dear friends, this quotation means that by persisting in the assumption that you already are the person you choose to be, already doing what it is you choose to do and already having that which you choose to have, you rise above all doubt, fear, and any belief in the power of outside conditions or circumstances; and your world inevitably, that’s right...inevitably conforms to your assumption.

...that you bolded, is right on target.

Also the statement from the reverend Dr Michael Beckwith, that you bolded…

You cannot fool Spiritual Law! It produces effects in exact correspondence to what is held in your consciousness.

…is very profound.

Another concept your daughter refers to is “the Law of Feelingization”. Can you give a description of this?

This puts me in mind of another law, probably related, called the Law of Universal, Unconditional Love. I can provide a partial description.

The Law of Universal, Unconditional Love governs our spiritual progress. The Law exists and operates, whether we are aware of it or not. It is more than a truth to be learned; it is unavoidable, eternal and immutable. The Law simply states that if we act or react to our earthly stimuli with love, then our spiritual progress is accelerated. If we act or react with hatred, then spiritual progress is retarded, or reversed, depending on significance of the act. It must be remembered that acts include thoughts, which are spiritually equivalent to physical acts. Also, inaction is a form of reaction.

Unconditional love is not only a total acceptance of everyone and all things, it is, and perhaps most importantly, a total acceptance of ourselves. Unconditional love is total acceptance, non-judgmental and does not make demands. It is a love that comes from a depth within, that is felt whether with someone or experiencing solitude. We must learn to live life from the “inside out” instead of from the “outside in”.

Some scientists have recently postulated that reality is created by consciousness. Perhaps the creation of reality requires consciousness coupled with faith and unconditional love.

[_Quantumwave]

Since I used the word "creation", and since it carries so much baggage, I feel I should provide my take to avoid confusion.

My concept of creation is that all life that ever has been or is now on the planet is a result of Darwinistic natural selection of choices made possible through stochastic processes over geologic periods of time.

[_richardMdBorn]

Roger,

Do you believe this:

your world inevitably, that’s right...inevitably conforms to your assumption.

How do you explain this in light of "the sun rises on both the just and unjust." Please explain this in light of

Luke 13:1-5
1Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.

2And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?

3"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

4"Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?

5"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

[_Roger Morrison]

Q-W, thanks for your thoughtful reply. First, i didn't make it very clear as to the author of those thoughts. I should have said my daughter 'forwarded me..." That has been taken care of by my "Edit"...

However, I think we are on the same page. You said, into which i'll interject in bold:

Roger…good points I generally agree with.

More of the ‘faulty-faith’ I would point out is the latter-day mentality, which creates an under-current of “no need to worry about the future, it will take care of itself”.

RM: Possibly, but how about: "worry" doesn't help the future. The future is produced by thoughts and deeds of individuals, & groups, keeping OR breaking Universal laws. I think our 'concern' for the future should encourage good understanding of those laws. Because, in a sense, the future is created/made, established in the present. AND, thus IS taken care of.
There are many definitions of faith, probably as many definitions as there are definers. Your definition, which is perhaps more a statement of efficacy is…
Quote:
IT is THE essence of life, that when practiced/applied bears the fruit of life that prospers individuals, and communities
... and to me, you are providing a definition/efficacy of universal love.

Whether one calls it faith or universal love, when practiced properly it will indeed, "bear the fruit of life that prospers individuals, and communities".

I don’t know what your daughter’s definition of “Feelingization” is, but I would proffer a guess that it is a warm regard for everyone and everything, and to me, again, that is another term for universal love.

RM: I think You are correct in that. "Feelingization" is a term Fletch probably introduce to the group???

Your daughter’s statement… (Fletch's)
Quote:
If there were not a deep-seated awareness that that which you hope for or desire has substance and is possible for you to attain, it would be impossible to assume the consciousness (feeling tone) of already being or already having or already doing it!!
…reminds me of a statement made by a friend during an email exchange on the subject. He said I would not be able to rise from the chair I was sitting in without faith! I argued with him, but could not change his mind. RM: I can see his point. It is difficult to understand "Faith" as pragmatic and mundane... But i tend to see the Farmer and Small Business Person as folks-of-faith! Really, after the best, or worst, of plans 'faith' does its thing...

I categorize definitions of faith as falling between two extremes; at zero degrees is the Archie Bunker definition: “Faith is a belief in something no one in their right mind would believe”. At one-hundred-eighty degrees is: “Faith is the motivating force responsible for the creation of all that is”. Regard the degrees stated as polar coordinates, and you have my concept of the infinitude of possible definitions.

Your daughter’s statement… (Fletch's)
Quote:
Thus, my dear friends, this quotation means that by persisting in the assumption that you already are the person you choose to be, already doing what it is you choose to do and already having that which you choose to have, you rise above all doubt, fear, and any belief in the power of outside conditions or circumstances; and your world inevitably, that’s right...inevitably conforms to your assumption.
...that you bolded, is right on target.

Also the statement from the reverend Dr Michael Beckwith, that you bolded… DR. Beckwith is the founder of the Trans-denominational Spiritual Community, in Culver City, CA. My daughter attends there. www.agapelive.com
Quote:
You cannot fool Spiritual Law! It produces effects in exact correspondence to what is held in your consciousness.
…is very profound.

Another concept your daughter refers to is “the Law of Feelingization”. Can you give a description of this?

This puts me in mind of another law, probably related, called the Law of Universal, Unconditional Love. I can provide a partial description.

The Law of Universal, Unconditional Love governs our spiritual progress. The Law exists and operates, whether we are aware of it or not. RM: As do all laws. Break, or use them knowingly, or unknowingly, it matters not to an unprejudiced, just and loving "God" (Universe :-) It is more than a truth to be learned; it is unavoidable, eternal and immutable. The Law simply states that if we act or react to our earthly stimuli with love, then our spiritual progress is accelerated. If we act or react with hatred, then spiritual progress is retarded, or reversed, depending on significance of the act. It must be remembered that acts include thoughts, which are spiritually equivalent to physical acts. Also, inaction is a form of reaction. RM: Or action!?

Unconditional love is not only a total acceptance of everyone and all things, it is, and perhaps most importantly, a total acceptance of ourselves. Unconditional love is total acceptance, non-judgmental and does not make demands. (Just like "God"... No demands, just expectations :-) It is a love that comes from a depth within, that is felt whether with someone or experiencing solitude. We must learn to live life from the “inside out” instead of from the “outside in”. YES!

Some scientists have recently postulated that reality is created by consciousness. RM: Could it be otherwise? Perhaps the creation of reality requires consciousness coupled with faith and unconditional love.

I know nothing about "creation" of time, space, life, et al. Although i do create my own cookies, in my own reality... I think that's what most of us do. Warm regards, Roger

[_Roger Morrison]

Roger,

Do you believe this:

your world inevitably, that’s right...inevitably conforms to your assumption.

How do you explain this in light of "the sun rises on both the just and unjust." Please explain this in light of

Luke 13:1-5
1Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.

2And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?

3"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

4"Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?

5"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Richard, i think we have to differentiate between "your world" and "THE World"...

As to Luke: I think Jesus is stating there was no relationship between the fates suffered by those victims and their sins. AYK, there is a tendency--more then than now--to connect tragedy to "God's" punishment...

ATST, most of us need to up-grade our behaviours for our own benifit as well as for that of others... I don't think he literally meant, "Towers would fall... or, your blood would be mixed with sacrifices..."

You point out well the difficulties of "literalism" ... IMSCO, Jesus' principles, that remain consistant throughout his teachings and examples, are of most importance... Warm regards, Roger

[_Some Schmo]

I just about had an aneurysm reading this tripe.

All I can say is that faith is not evidence of anything except whatever delusions are going on in one's mind.

I will say that I agree: whatever you believe and think about regularly is likely to shape your reality. However, applying the term 'faith' to that concept dilutes and renders its meaning ambiguous at best.

[_Roger Morrison]

I just about had an aneurysm reading this tripe.

All I can say is that faith is not evidence of anything except whatever delusions are going on in one's mind.

I will say that I agree: whatever you believe and think about regularly is likely to shape your reality. However, applying the term 'faith' to that concept dilutes and renders its meaning ambiguous at best.

Hi Shmoe, glad it was "just-about"... :-)

"Faith" can be in stupid-stuff, "delusions"... Or in stuff that's not so stupid, like faith in yourself to, fill-in-the-blanks........ One pays-off, the other doesn't.

Yep, "faith" can be a poor choice of words... I think religiousity has commandeered a number of terms, limiting our understanding of them to churchiness... Besides "faith" i would add "sin", "repentance", "God" & whatever ones you might think...

Sorting through the ambiguity is a good exercise. Some times helps me to see another's view. Like yours--"tripe". I'd have never thought of it that way...

Thanks Bro. Schmo, Warm regards, Roger