PBS Program Reveals Temple Outfits

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_SatanWasSetUp
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Post by _SatanWasSetUp »

Gazelam wrote:This blacks and the priesthood issue is such a dead horse. Does she get this way about the Gentiles of the New Testament being rejected by Christ? It wasn't their time then, and it wasn't the Negros time until the 1970's.



There is a reason why these issues don't go away quietly, Gazelam. Because they were taught authoritatively for generations. Below is a letter from the First Presidency of the church in 1947 written to Lowry Nelson, clarifying the church's position on "the Negro". This was official doctrine until 1978.

"Dear Brother Nelson:

"As you have been advised, your letter of June 16 was received in due course . . . We have carefully considered [its] content; and are glad to advise you as follows:

"We make this initial remark: the social side of the Restored Gospel is only an incident of it; it is not the end thereof.

"The basic element of your ideas and concepts seems to be that all God's children stand in equal positions before Him in all things. Your knowledge of the Gospel will indicate to you that this is contrary to the very fundamentals of God's dealings with Israel dating from the time of His promise to Abraham regarding Abraham's seed and their position vis-a-vis God Himself. Indeed, some of God's children were assinged to superior positions before the world was formed.

"We are aware that some Higher Critics do not accept this, but the Church does. Your position seems to lose sight of the revelations of the Lord touching the pre-existence of our spirits, the rebellion in heaven, and the doctrines that our birth into this life and the advantages under which we may be born, have a religionship in the life heretofore.

"From the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith even until now, it is has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by any of the Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel.

"Furthermore, your ideas, as we understand them, appear to contemplate the intermarriage of the Negro and White races, a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people
from the ancient partiarchs till now. God's rule for Israel, His Chosen People, has been endogamous [meaning 'marriage within a specific tribe or similar social unit']. Modern Israel has been similarly directed.

"We are not unmindful of the fact that there is a growing tendency, particularly among some educators, as it manifests itself in this are, toward the breaking down of race barriers in the matter of intermarriage between whites and blacks, but it does not have the sanction of the Church and is contrary to Church doctrine.

"Faithfully yours,

[signed]

George Albert Smith
J. Reuben Clark, Jr.
David O. McKay

"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley

"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
_Doctor Steuss
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Post by _Doctor Steuss »

Gazelam wrote:[...]Funny he states there was never any secrecy in christianity. [...]


They might want to fill Joachim Jeremias and Guy G. Stroumsa in on this little tid-bit as both of these idiots seem to have missed the memo.
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_Gazelam
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Fortigurn

Post by _Gazelam »

You stated:
Er, no they most certainly were not. Christ had not yet come.


What does the title of Messiah mean? Why was John baptiseing?

The text below sheds some light on what the ancients believed in regards to a coming messiah.



When Adam, being greatly downcast, appeals for aid against Satan (who is more than a match for him), God tells the angel Muriel, "Go down to the man Adam and instruct him in my doctrine." The Apocryphon of John says, "A messenger went down and awakened Adam and showed him how to keep himself pure against the day of another visitation."165 In some versions, Adam is awakened from his sleep by three men whom he does not recognize. As he is talking to them, the Lord himself appears and asks Adam, "Why are you so sorrowful?" He is sorrowful because he is doomed, he says. The Lord promises him that "if he hearkens to the angels, they will teach him and his posterity the Gospel."

It was by establishing ordinances, says the Gospel of Philip, that Christ completed what Adam began. Adam and others prayed to God and asked him to give them the rules to attain the promises. So he gave them ordinances, decrees, commandments, and instructions, establishing places of preparation and transition, etc.166 Adam received the teachings, the ordinances, and the seals of all the Powers above and below, the Kephalaia says. The Berlin Papyrus says that at their new birth, Adam and Eve received the seals and the tokens. As Adam stood praying and supplicating, God sent someone who came and gave him a greeting of peace (shalom), embraced him, and preached the gospel to him.167 The helper came and awakened the Lord of Mysteries, who is Adam. For Adam went through all the ordinances, including baptism, washings, and anointings, says the Mandaean Prayerbook. According to the Ginza, the Lord and two companions taught Adam and Eve all the ordinances and blessed them. "The Great Light planted us here and gave us helpers who taught us the prayer of Adam in the world." Three angels were sent to teach Adam and Eve the law of chastity, to instruct them to be true and faithful when misfortune came upon them, and to dedicate all of their property to the needy and the poor—the rule which is binding upon all the elect. They were to call upon God without ceasing, in the name of the Son, and not to trust in the things of this world.168

One text says that these ordinances which Adam received in his dispensation have always been the same. They were taught to Adam and his posterity by three angels. His descendants were required to call upon God even as he had, and thereafter to do everything as he had done. Their treasure must be their good works, not gold and silver. They must teach the law of chastity to their children. The true baptism is the baptism of Adam, which was preached by John the Baptist. The three who were sent to Adam were called "the three who belong to the twelve, who were hidden within the veil of light." And in the Apocalypse of Abraham, Abraham is awakened by the Sent Ones, and their instructions to him and the ordinances exactly parallel those of Adam. Abraham says, "I arose and looked upon him that had taken me by the right hand, and he set me on my feet. . . . The hair of his head was like snow."169 It was the Savior himself.

Adam, you recall, had lost memory of his former existence. "I have caused a sleep to come over Adam," says the Abbatôn (a significant early writing of the apostles), "and a forgetting."170 Adam's sleep was the putting of a veil between him and his former knowledge. It enveloped him like a garment, and, while his memory was shut off by it, his epinoia (intelligence) retained its force. He remained smart, but he forgot everything. In fact, during the episode of the creation, Eve was made (not from a literal rib, according to this source) while Adam was in sort of a drugged stupor, his mind separated by a veil from what was really going on.171 He is aroused, then, and taught ordinances. He is the double for Michael, for Adam is Michael. Adam is Michael throughout these writings; it's a common theme.

For some reason, the ordinances are vital. They are not mere forms or symbols, they are analogues. Standing with the apostles in the prayer circle, the Lord tells them, "I will teach you all the ordinances necessary that you may be purged by degrees and progress in the next life."172 In many of these forty-day stories (and there are several), after the Lord is about to leave the apostles, he says, "I have taught you all these things. Now we will stand in a circle, and you will repeat after me this prayer, and we will go through all the ordinances again.173 This is repeated in 2 Jeu, which, as I say, Carl Schmidt regarded as the most important of all the early Christian writings. But standing with the apostles in the prayer circle, the Lord tells them, "I will teach you all of the ordinances necessary/ that you might be purged by degrees and progress in the next life. These things," he further explains, "make it possible for you to achieve other places (topoi), but they must be performed in this life. Unless one performs them here, he cannot become a 'Son of Light.'"174 All the texts, whether Syriac, Hebrew, Coptic, or Greek, always like the title "Sons of Light," meaning those who have received the ordinances of the temple. That's what the code name "Sons of Light" means, and it's used a great deal. The Lord explains in 2 Jeu what that name means: "By very definition, the 'Sons of Light' are those that are perfect in the ordinances."175 It is interesting that this same definition applies to the mysterious title Nazorean, which means the same thing. "Until Christ came," the Pistis Sophia explains, "no soul had gone through the ordinances in their completeness. It was he who opened the gates and the way of life."176 Those who received these ordinances are in the dispensations of the "'Sons of Light" in whatever age they lived, and they receive whatever they desire. They are those upon the right hand of the Father, for it is by their faithfulness in these things that they show they are worthy to return and inherit the kingdom. Without the ordinances, therefore, there is no foothold or foundation to anything in this life. If you want to go to the Father, says 1 Jeu, you must pass through the veil.177

These five things you have asked me about (the Lord tells the apostles after his resurrection, in the Kephalaia) appear very small and unimportant to the world, but they are really a very great and holy thing. I will teach you the mysteries now. These tokens (semeia) go back to the ordinances of the first man, Adam himself. He brought them with him when he came out of the garden of Eden, and having completed his struggle upon the earth, he mounted up by these very same signs and was received again into the Aeons of Light. The person who receives these becomes a Son. He both gives and receives the signs and the tokens of the God of truth, while demonstrating the same to the Church—all in hopes that some day these things may become a reality. So the apostles realized that these things are but forms and types, yet you can't do without them. You cannot do without analogues. For us they may only be symbols, but they must be done here, the Lord says. They may be but symbols here, but they are indispensable steps to the attainment of real power. "In fact," says the Pistis Sophia, "without the mysteries one loses one's power. Without the ordinances, one has no way of controlling matter, for such control begins with the control of one's self. The ordinances provide the very means and the discipline by which light operates on material things. You don't understand this now," it continues, "but your level, or taxis, in the next world will depend on the ordinances you receive in this world. Whoever receives the highest here will understand the whys and the wherefores of the great plan." "You can't understand it now, but you will. Your faith is being tested here. It is through the ordinances that one makes this progress in knowledge, so that those who receive all available ordinances and teachings here shall pass by all the intermediate topoi and shall not have to give the answers and signs, nor stand certain tests hereafter."178

John the Baptist, who performed the ordinances with which he was entrusted, foretold in a special language that Christ would bring the ordinances of the higher priesthood after him, because John the Baptist had only the ordinances of the Aaronic, or lesser priesthood, the Pistis Sophia tells us.179 And in the Epistle of the Apostles: Indeed, it was the Lord who, during the forty days, finally revealed all the ordinances in full. To repeat, "Everyone goes to the place indicated by the ordinances he has received. Even a sinless person," the Lord tells them, "cannot save others without these ordinances."180 Let us not think this trivial because these things should be given to all who ask for them. If they are not worthy, the risk is theirs. For everyone should be given the highest ordinance he is capable of receiving at any time. No one is to be refused, for the risk is theirs, the ordinances are so important to have.

"The all important thing is that the ordinances must be received in this world," says the Pistis Sophia, for we may never get another chance.181 "It is here that one must look upon the Living One; for if he does not, he will seek him in vain after death," says the Gospel of Thomas.182 He reveals the gate to those who are willing to enter. Each of us will receive his reward. For us, God has provided a Savior and helper. You, James, will be the enlightener and redeemer of those who are mine. You will become a Savior to them, he tells James, and they will be thine also. Whoever receives these ordinances, signs, and tokens will be added upon and have true increase forever and ever, says the Kephalaia. By means of these good signs and tokens, such shall enter into the light and shall become perfect men, and give honor and praise to the God of truth



footnotes:
165. Apocryphon of John 20:14–25, in NHLE, 110.

166. Gospel of Philip 55:5–25, in NHLE, 133.

167. Cf. Apocryphon of John 20:15–25, in NHLE, 110.

168. Lidzbarski, Ginza, 14–27.

169. Apocalypse of Abraham 11:1–2, in OTP 1:694.

170. "Discourse on Abbatôn," in Budge, Coptic Martyrdoms, 225–249,474–96.

171. Cf. Apocryphon of John 20:14–21:16; 22:20–21; 22:34–23:14, in NHLE, 110–11.

172. 2 Jeu 44, in Schmidt, Books of Jeu and the Untitled Text, 105.

173. Cf. 2 Jeu 42, in ibid., 99; Pistis Sophia IV, 136, in Schmidt, Pistis Sophia, 353–54.

174. 2 Jeu 51, in Schmidt, Books of Jeu and the Untitled Text, 126; cf. Pistis Sophia III, 125, in Schmidt, Pistis Sophia, 314–15.

175. 2 Jeu 51, in Schmidt, Books of Jeu and the Untitled Text, 126.

176. Pistis Sophia III, 135, in Schmidt, Pistis Sophia, 350.

177. Cf. 1 Jeu 39, in Schmidt, Books of Jeu and the Untitled Text, 89. This subject is discussed generally throughout the whole text of the books of Jeu.

178. Pistis Sophia II, 97, in Schmidt, Pistis Sophia, 234–35.

179. Cf. Pistis Sophia III, 132, in ibid., 347–48.

180. Pistis Sophia II, 97; III, 133, in Schmidt, Pistis Sophia, 234–35; 346–47.

181. Pistis Sophia III, 125, in Schmidt, Pistis Sophia, 314.

182. Gospel of Thomas, logion 59, in NHLE, 124
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_moksha
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Post by _moksha »

Gazelam wrote:I wonder if the guys maing the videop knew they werent supposed to show the Garment. My guess is they filmed that little spot in the Tanner bookstore. Just a hunch.


I think you are right about not undestanding the "no show" part, but those exact same pictures have been on the internet for several years.
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_Gazelam
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Post by _Gazelam »

moksha wrote:
Gazelam wrote:I wonder if the guys maing the videop knew they werent supposed to show the Garment. My guess is they filmed that little spot in the Tanner bookstore. Just a hunch.


I think you are right about not undestanding the "no show" part, but those exact same pictures have been on the internet for several years.


You know, now that you mention it, I think your right. I have seen that same picture before. It wasn't so much on an anti site either, just some guy complaining about Mormons in a blog, if memory serves me right.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Fortigurn
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Re: Fortigurn

Post by _Fortigurn »

Gazelam wrote:You stated:
Er, no they most certainly were not. Christ had not yet come.


What does the title of Messiah mean?


It means 'annointed' ('Christ', in Greek).

Why was John baptiseing?


For the remission of sins.

The text below sheds some light on what the ancients believed in regards to a coming messiah.


No, those are just the ramblings of an apostate in an apocryphal work. As I said, Judaism and Christianity are different. Christianity is by definition a faith built on the premise that the messiah long awaited by Judaism has come. People were not Christians prior to Christ.
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_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

moksha wrote:
Gazelam wrote:I wonder if the guys maing the videop knew they werent supposed to show the Garment. My guess is they filmed that little spot in the Tanner bookstore. Just a hunch.


I think you are right about not undestanding the "no show" part, but those exact same pictures have been on the internet for several years.


Huh. I wonder if there are any other images of this sort of thing in existence? For some reason, the fact that the Church has managed to keep all this stuff so completely secreted away from the outside world for so long strikes me as being a wee bit creepy. I cannot quite explain why....
_aussieguy55
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Clip

Post by _aussieguy55 »

The black priesthood issue was interesting in where Oaks claims the priesthood was barred to blacks until 1978. However we know that Elijah Abel was ordained. Some of BY statements smack of racism. He states that blacks were doomed to be servants. When I was in the LDS church I remember talking to a member who had served a mission on NY. He told me that when they were door knocking and came accross a black family they would teach the first lesson and the family would have to ASK the missionaries to come back again and again for further lessons. No so with nonblack families. I think the mixed races of South American mad them realise that they would have been maybe ordaining men who had a "drop of the blood of Cain". Lester Bush's paper in Dialogue showed for me how silly and inconsistant the practice was.
_Gazelam
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Fort

Post by _Gazelam »

Why do you perscribe a difference in the term "Christian" to those who looked forward to Christ compared to those who look back on Christ?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_moksha
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Post by _moksha »

Mister Scratch wrote:...the fact that the Church has managed to keep all this stuff so completely secreted away from the outside world for so long strikes me as being a wee bit creepy. I cannot quite explain why....


Most people do not like to be photographed in their underwear. Paris Hilton refuses to have any pictures taken of her with underwear.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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