guy sajer wrote:Yes despite it all, I would argue that society today (at least Western Society) is far more "moral" that at any time in history, if one judges morality by respect for human rights, human freedoms, and human dignity.
On paper, you mean. And remind me what 'human rights, human freedoms, and human dignity' are. I guess they must be absolute truths which modern man finally stumbled over like the law of gravity, rather than arbitrary social control constructs which were simply invented 300 years ago (surely that couldn't be true).
Society is far from perfect; there exist many moral outrages big and small, but at the very least, we possess a moral framework in which to understand and judge these acts, and we are open to increasing moral understanding and development.
Again, that moral framework is on paper. It is not reality. The reality is that society conditions us to very different behaviours.
The ancients do have much to teach us about human experience, but little about human morality. Our understanding of the moral universe has increased geometrically since the ancient days making much of what ancient holy books have to tell us about morality quite irrelevant.
On what basis do you make that statement?
Fort, I seem to note in you a bit of nostalgia for the good old days when life was simpler, people lived in small, close knit communities, and society was governed by good old fashioned morals (I’ve perhaps misread you). You are highly critical of modern times, yet appear to have a critical blind spot for the halcyon days of yore.
It's not nostalgia, because I wasn't around back then. I am certainly critical of modern society, and rightly so. Just look at the place. It's a wreck. You honestly think that a society in which kids shoot each other en masse in schools has anything to teach us about morality? Give me a break.
I do not have a 'blind spot for the halcyon days of yore'. I'm fully aware that life was usually shorter, less comfortable, and didn't involve the enjoyable indulgent exploitations of others which we in modern society today believe are so important for our personal well being. I would be prepared to lose some of our mod cons and put up with a less pampered lifestyle in exchange for the benefits of previous societies.
Life in the traditional community had its advantages, but it also had its disadvantages, as does modern society.
Of course it had its disadvantages. I simply believe that the disadvantages of today's society outweigh the advantages, and the advantages of earlier societies outweigh the disadvantages.
I think it perfectly acceptable to criticize the failings of modern society (which are legion), but in doing so, it helps to keep in mind, to quote the song, “the good old days weren’t always so good.”
I agree with you. But then we would disagree on which parts of the 'good old days' were actually 'good'.