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_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
Ray A wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:Ray is starting to sound an awful lot like DCP. Compare Ray's statement above with DCP's statement to me in a private email on May 15, 2006


Another gutless wonder who won't reveal his real name. Really, Rollo, you roll in it.

So you agree with me on your uncanny similarity to DCP?

I don't think I have ever seen a positive thread on Mormonism from you. Can you prove me wrong?

Sure, I'd be happy to prove you wrong. Just 8 days ago, on April 17, 2007, I began a thread on this very forum entitled "Positive Change to BYU Honor Code re gay students" and attached an article discussing what I considered to be positive change in BYU's treatment of gay students.


I was thinking even I have started positive threads about the church, and I don't even like the church.
_Who Knows
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Post by _Who Knows »

Ray A wrote:Only apostates try to drag people out of the Church. You don't realise what you're doing, but 10 or 20 years down the track, you will see. You think I don't know what I'm talking about? I only hope God gives you the strength to endure. You don't know what I know. I went through all of this over 20 years ago, and at the time I was just as stupid as you are now.


Oh, spare me the superiority complex (when i was your age, i walked barefoot in the snow 6 miles to school uphill, both ways). You know absolutely nothing about me and my family. If you did, I'd highly doubt you'd accuse me of the nonsense that you're just making up.

You don't have to believe me (and i suspect that you won't), but 'dragging' anyone out of the church is the last thing i'm trying to do. The last thing i want is for my wife to resent me for something. If she leaves the church, she's doing it on her own. And guess what? She is.

I feel sorry for you, if that's what you did with your wife and family (try to drag them out of the church). But just because you did, doesn't mean we all did.

Is this the source of your anger Ray?
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:Sure, I'd be happy to prove you wrong. Just 8 days ago, on April 17, 2007, I began a thread on this very forum entitled "Positive Change to BYU Honor Code re gay students" and attached an article discussing what I considered to be positive change in BYU's treatment of gay students.


Of course. It had to be something to do with gays.

Yawn. Time for bed.
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

Who Knows wrote:Oh, spare me the superiority complex (when I was your age, I walked barefoot in the snow 6 miles to school uphill, both ways). You know absolutely nothing about me and my family. If you did, I'd highly doubt you'd accuse me of the nonsense that you're just making up.

You don't have to believe me (and I suspect that you won't), but 'dragging' anyone out of the church is the last thing I'm trying to do. The last thing I want is for my wife to resent me for something. If she leaves the church, she's doing it on her own. And guess what? She is.

I feel sorry for you, if that's what you did with your wife and family (try to drag them out of the church). But just because you did, doesn't mean we all did.

Is this the source of your anger Ray?


Yep, the worst thing one of us could do would be to attempt to drag our families out of the church. My wife simply does not want to hear the reasons why I left, and I respect that. I figure if my kids ask me why I don't believe, I'll tell them. But I don't think my marriage would last long if I tried to convince anyone in my family to leave with me.
_Rollo Tomasi
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Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

Ray A wrote:Of course. It had to be something to do with gays.

When a religion is as homophobic as the LDS Church, nearly any policy change could be positive.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_Bond...James Bond
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Post by _Bond...James Bond »

Ray A wrote:The blackened apostates strike. The mobs who tarred and feathered Joseph Smith. Oh, wait, you were never Mormon. You're just a professional Mormon-basher who wants to join the lynching. You really have the spirit of this place. Once you were reasonable, but bile has really got you. A professional anti-Mormon who was never Mormon. Do you have anything better to do than feed your inferiority complex by writing a blog to feed your deflated ego? And imagine, bashing a church to build your ego and get a few laughs. You must really be the bottom of the barrel.


I'd respond but what's the point?

I still don't know what being a never Mormon has to do with anything though.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

Of course, there's no difference. You can't see it. The posters here can't see it. So obviously there's no difference. Well, I'm sorry to break your heart, beastie, but just about everyone else sees it. But, please yourself. After all, it took you five years to wake up to what I was saying about Steve Benson when he first started posting in 2002. Not to worry. I am patient.


Of course there’s a difference to you. The church is true. Satan fights against it. People who fight against it are in open opposition to God. So of course any pejorative term is justified, just like pejorative terms would be justified against Luther.

Am I right?

“Everyone else sees it.” No, Ray, only believing Mormons see it. Very few others would.

You take a good look at that list of adjectives I supplied. I bet the only reason you would be able to differentiate between the pejoratives used by yourself and church leaders versus those used by angry exmormons is because the quotes are from other threads on this board.

So it isn’t the terms, in and of themselves, that you differentiate. It is the context of the pejoratives. And the context is that one group is attacking believing Mormons, and the other attack exmormons.

Mormons are justified in their attacks, because the church is true, and what they say is correct. Exmormons aren’t justified because they are Satan’s tools in fighting the truth, and they lie.

That sums up your position, as far as I can see. I just never realized that this issue is as black and white for you as it is very any other believing MADdite.

I want to remind you of Orson Pratt’s statement – and he was not alone in this sentiment:

" this book must be either true or false, if false it is one of the most cunning wicked bold deep-laid impositions ever pawned upon the world. Calculated to deceive and ruin millions who will really receive it as the word of God and suppose themselves securely built upon the rock of truth, until they are plunged with their families into hopeless despair. The nature of the message in the Book of Mormon is such if true no one can possibly be saved and rejected. If false no one can possibly be saved and receive it. If after a rigid examination it be found an imposition it should be extensively published to the world as such the evidences and arguments upon which the imposter was detected should be clearly and logically stated. So that those who have been sincerely yet unfortunately deceived may perceive the nature of the deception and be reclaimed. And that those who continue to publish the delusion may be exposed and silenced by evidences adduced from scripture and reason."


According to him, if people do, indeed, ascertain that the Book of Mormon is a fraud, they have a moral responsibility to expose it.

According to modern apologists, if people ascertain that the Book of Mormon is a fraud, they have moral responsibility to shut up.

Why the change?
Last edited by Tator on Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

Ray,

I am guessing that you have reacted so harshly to runtu because he said that you compared exmormons to Nazis. I know you think that you clearly did not, and that you only compared us to the Lutherites who provided the hate speech that later fueled the nazi movement, but perhaps, in some part of your mind, you can appreciate that this is not a significant distinction to those of us so tarred by your brush.

Runtu has always been one of most reasonable and accommodating exmormons around. The fact that MAD banned him makes them laughable, as did their previous banning of truth dancer. I suggest you rethink your harsh reaction to him.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Runtu
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

beastie wrote:Ray,

I am guessing that you have reacted so harshly to runtu because he said that you compared exmormons to Nazis. I know you think that you clearly did not, and that you only compared us to the Lutherites who provided the hate speech that later fueled the nazi movement, but perhaps, in some part of your mind, you can appreciate that this is not a significant distinction to those of us so tarred by your brush.

Runtu has always been one of most reasonable and accommodating exmormons around. The fact that MAD banned him makes them laughable, as did their previous banning of truth dancer. I suggest you rethink your harsh reaction to him.


If Ray did not compare exmos to Nazis, I apologize, but that was how I read it and reacted accordingly.
_Mercury
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Post by _Mercury »

Ray A wrote:And you do post after post, trying to justify your apostasy.


Get one thing straight vegemite-for-brains, Exmos and the world at large do not hold to your antiquated system of "standards". We hold ourselves to higher powers, truth and scholarship. You rail against our more accurate perceptions of these things. My naziesque comparrison of your views underscores just how messed up your perception of exmos is.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
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