The Ancients

Post by **_Fortigurn** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:33 pm

liz3564 wrote:I'm still at a crossroads regarding my feelings about the whole polygamy issue and how it fits into truthfulness of doctrine.

I believe that should be 'truthiness'.

Post by **_harmony** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:14 pm

Fortigurn wrote:
harmony wrote:What makes you think he appeared to the ancients? Visited them by the agency of angels (whatever that means)? Showed them visions? Spoke to them audibly from the heavens? Supplied them with prophecies of the future?

As I said, it's a matter of faith.

Just because they said so?

No.

Heck, Joseph Smith claimed the same, but you don't believe him, do you? Why do you believe what the ancients said?

There are significant differences between what Smith said and what the 'ancients' I trust said. The major differences involve verification. I can verify enough of what these 'ancients' said in order to provide sufficient basis for rational faith. This cannot be done for Smith.

What of the ancients' can you verify?

Post by **_Jersey Girl** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:18 am

harm,

I know I'm coming into this three pages too late (got sidelined by a blizzard) but have you defined "ancients"? If not, could you? If you have...could you do it again?

Jersey Girl

Post by **_Jersey Girl** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:24 am

harmony

Why do we place such importance on the writings of the ancients? What do they have to say that could possibly have relevance to life today? Why does it matter what people who have been dead for thousands of years believed about anything, let alone God or a Savior or how weather patterns worked?

Why are ancient philosophers more important than the philosophers of today?

Loran

Nothing...nothing you have ever said tells me more about who you really are than this.

Gaz

What baffles me is that she sits in the foyer of the temple contemplateing these things while her husband is going through ordinances for the dead.

And how do people find God if they aren't looking for Him? What's wrong about contemplating God?

Jersey Girl

Post by **_harmony** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:40 am

Jersey Girl wrote:harm,

I know I'm coming into this three pages too late (got sidelined by a blizzard) but have you defined "ancients"? If not, could you? If you have...could you do it again?

Jersey Girl

The ancients would be any man or group of men who were considered wise men by their peers and whose words have in some manner come down to us today. I'm curious about a couple of things:

1. Why is the wisdom of the ancients more valuable to this group than the today's wisdom?

2. Why is the wisdom of some religions considered more valuable to this group than the wisdom of other religions?

Post by **_Jersey Girl** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:47 am

harmony

1. Why is the wisdom of the ancients more valuable to this group than the today's wisdom?

I assume you mean more valuable to LDS (?) than today's wisdom? I don't mean to be a pain, harm, but could you give examples?

Just shooting in the dark here, I'd say that today's wisdom is based on ancient wisdom.

Jersey Girl

Post by **_harmony** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:48 am

liz3564 wrote:
Heck, Joseph Smith claimed the same, but you don't believe him, do you? Why do you believe what the ancients said?

Do you believe that Heavenly Father and Christ appeared to Joseph in the grove? In the past, you have always stated that you felt that Joseph's vision was real, and the Book of Mormon was an inspired translation. Your stance in the past has been that he lost his spirituality during the time he had the affair with Fanny Alger, and that he instituted polygamy to cover his tracks.

Frankly, this is a theory I have also given pause to. I'm still at a crossroads regarding my feelings about the whole polygamy issue and how it fits into truthfulness of doctrine.

My own experience and polygamy is not what I want to discuss on this thread, Liz. Every time a thread goes down the personalized rabbit hole, the white noise becomes unbearable, and I have to start all over again. Thanks.

Post by **_harmony** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:01 am

Jersey Girl wrote:harmony
1. Why is the wisdom of the ancients more valuable to this group than the today's wisdom?

I assume you mean more valuable to LDS (?) than today's wisdom? I don't mean to be a pain, harm, but could you give examples?

Just shooting in the dark here, I'd say that today's wisdom is based on ancient wisdom.

Jersey Girl

Valuable to anyone. Fort isn't LDS; he trusts the ancients more than he trusts himself. I want to know why. Why does he read the accounts of Nathan giving David Solomon's wives and accepts that as truth, without questioning? Or the accounts of Moses on the mountain? Or the stories of Adam and Eve... when we know the whole Garden of Eden story is a myth?

We know the ancients were wrong a lot. We know the words we have in whatever tradition, be it oral traditions as many NA tribes have, or written in the Koran or the Bible, are suspect. Yet many of us accept the ancients' words without question, giving them a free pass just because it's tradition.

I want to know why we do that. Why does ancient wisdom Trump modern wisdom?

Post by **_Jersey Girl** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:06 am

Chopping up harmony's post to bits

Yet many of us accept the ancients' words without question, giving them a free pass just because it's tradition.

I want to know why we do that

Because we were indoctrinated to do it.

Jersey Girl

Post by **_harmony** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:13 am

Jersey Girl wrote:Chopping up harmony's post to bits
Yet many of us accept the ancients' words without question, giving them a free pass just because it's tradition.

I want to know why we do that

Because we were indoctrinated to do it.

Jersey Girl

Then why do we continue?