Crippled by Their Culture

[_Coggins7]

Continuing the race debate here, as I don't particularly like the Telestial Kingdom.




Crippled by Their Culture
Race doesn't hold back America's "black rednecks." Nor does racism.

BY THOMAS SOWELL
Tuesday, April 26, 2005 12:01 a.m.

For most of the history of this country, differences between the black and the white population--whether in income, IQ, crime rates, or whatever--have been attributed to either race or racism. For much of the first half of the 20th century, these differences were attributed to race--that is, to an assumption that blacks just did not have it in their genes to do as well as white people. The tide began to turn in the second half of the 20th century, when the assumption developed that black-white differences were due to racism on the part of whites.

Three decades of my own research lead me to believe that neither of those explanations will stand up under scrutiny of the facts. As one small example, a study published last year indicated that most of the black alumni of Harvard were from either the West Indies or Africa, or were the children of West Indian or African immigrants. These people are the same race as American blacks, who greatly outnumber either or both.

If this disparity is not due to race, it is equally hard to explain by racism. To a racist, one black is pretty much the same as another. But, even if a racist somehow let his racism stop at the water's edge, how could he tell which student was the son or daughter of someone born in the West Indies or in Africa, especially since their American-born offspring probably do not even have a foreign accent?

What then could explain such large disparities in demographic "representation" among these three groups of blacks? Perhaps they have different patterns of behavior and different cultures and values behind their behavior.

There have always been large disparities, even within the native black population of the U.S. Those blacks whose ancestors were "free persons of color" in 1850 have fared far better in income, occupation, and family stability than those blacks whose ancestors were freed in the next decade by Abraham Lincoln.

What is not nearly as widely known is that there were also very large disparities within the white population of the pre-Civil War South and the white population of the Northern states. Although Southern whites were only about one-third of the white population of the U.S., an absolute majority of all the illiterate whites in the country were in the South.

The North had four times as many schools as the South, attended by more than four times as many students. Children in Massachusetts spent more than twice as many years in school as children in Virginia. Such disparities obviously produce other disparities. Northern newspapers had more than four times the circulation of Southern newspapers. Only 8% of the patents issued in 1851 went to Southerners. Even though agriculture was the principal economic activity of the antebellum South at the time, the vast majority of the patents for agricultural inventions went to Northerners. Even the cotton gin was invented by a Northerner.

Disparities between Southern whites and Northern whites extended across the board from rates of violence to rates of illegitimacy. American writers from both the antebellum South and the North commented on the great differences between the white people in the two regions. So did famed French visitor Alexis de Tocqueville.

None of these disparities can be attributed to either race or racism. Many contemporary observers attributed these differences to the existence of slavery in the South, as many in later times would likewise attribute both the difference between Northern and Southern whites, and between blacks and whites nationwide, to slavery. But slavery doesn't stand up under scrutiny of historical facts any better than race or racism as explanations of North-South differences or black-white differences. The people who settled in the South came from different regions of Britain than the people who settled in the North--and they differed as radically on the other side of the Atlantic as they did here--that is, before they had ever seen a black slave.

Slavery also cannot explain the difference between American blacks and West Indian blacks living in the United States because the ancestors of both were enslaved. When race, racism, and slavery all fail the empirical test, what is left?

Culture is left.

The culture of the people who were called "rednecks" and "crackers" before they ever got on the boats to cross the Atlantic was a culture that produced far lower levels of intellectual and economic achievement, as well as far higher levels of violence and sexual promiscuity. That culture had its own way of talking, not only in the pronunciation of particular words but also in a loud, dramatic style of oratory with vivid imagery, repetitive phrases and repetitive cadences.

Although that style originated on the other side of the Atlantic in centuries past, it became for generations the style of both religious oratory and political oratory among Southern whites and among Southern blacks--not only in the South but in the Northern ghettos in which Southern blacks settled. It was a style used by Southern white politicians in the era of Jim Crow and later by black civil rights leaders fighting Jim Crow. Martin Luther King's famous speech at the Lincoln Memorial in 1963 was a classic example of that style.

While a third of the white population of the U.S. lived within the redneck culture, more than 90% of the black population did. Although that culture eroded away over the generations, it did so at different rates in different places and among different people. It eroded away much faster in Britain than in the U.S. and somewhat faster among Southern whites than among Southern blacks, who had fewer opportunities for education or for the rewards that came with escape from that counterproductive culture.

Nevertheless the process took a long time. As late as the First World War, white soldiers from Georgia, Arkansas, Kentucky and Mississippi scored lower on mental tests than black soldiers from Ohio, Illinois, New York and Pennsylvania. Again, neither race nor racism can explain that--and neither can slavery.

The redneck culture proved to be a major handicap for both whites and blacks who absorbed it. Today, the last remnants of that culture can still be found in the worst of the black ghettos, whether in the North or the South, for the ghettos of the North were settled by blacks from the South. The counterproductive and self-destructive culture of black rednecks in today's ghettos is regarded by many as the only "authentic" black culture--and, for that reason, something not to be tampered with. Their talk, their attitudes, and their behavior are regarded as sacrosanct.

The people who take this view may think of themselves as friends of blacks. But they are the kinds of friends who can do more harm than enemies.

Mr. Sowell, the Rose and Milton Friedman Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, is author, most recently, of "Black Rednecks and White Liberals," published this week by Encounter Books.

[_Mr. Coffee]

As much as I hate to everr damned acknowelde a damned thing you say, Coogins, I wqill agree with you on this.

Argue as yuou will, and if able, I'll provide support fire.

[_Sam Harris]

What I want to know is why this is such an issue for Cog...

Bringing out the nastiest vitriol you can find to justify your religious belief in another person's inferiority?

[_Mister Scratch]

What I want to know is why this is such an issue for Cog...

Bringing out the nastiest vitriol you can find to justify your religious belief in another person's inferiority?

If you want to see his racism in full bloom, I suggest you check out the thread in the Telestial Forum entitled, "And I want you to know I forgive them" (or something to that effect).

[_Coggins7]

Its not that I'm a racist...I'm not. Its that Scratch and GIMR are Fascists. They just don't realize it yet.

But they will, once the hubris wears off.

[_Gazelam]

When has GIMR ever made a racist comment? I know the doctrine regarding the priesthood and the bloodline of Cain to be true, but its not hard for me to also see how poeple can have a hard time with it.

Also Ill state that the urban culture is in fact a crippleing one. This goes back to the days of Enoch, where the city was the place of decadence and immorality, where music played a large part of this even then. Its a state of irreverence, where nothing is held sacred. It creeps up on a person, the pumping rhythms replaceing the quiet promptings of the spirit.

One of the hardest things I've ever had to do was throw out my music collection.

Gaz

[_Sam Harris]

What I want to know is why this is such an issue for Cog...

Bringing out the nastiest vitriol you can find to justify your religious belief in another person's inferiority?

If you want to see his racism in full bloom, I suggest you check out the thread in the Telestial Forum entitled, "And I want you to know I forgive them" (or something to that effect).

LOL, I'll have to look at that later.

I find it so funny that Cog is trying to solve the problems of the Black Community. He acts like we as a whole are so dumb, and need his asenine person to teach us. Because it's just too far-fetched for this individual to think that any one of us (black people) has a mind of his or her own.

Here's my opinion on the "state of my people".

It's f*cking disturbing. And I'm not the only one who thinks so. When Russell Simmons comes out and says we need to take certain words out of the lyrics of Hip Hop culture, then obviously there's a problem. Imus needs his job back, it's rediculous for the black community to use words like "bitch", "ho" "bitchho" "n*gga", etc amongst themselves, and pretty much give everyone but white people free license to use those words. Because that's what's happening...still. You can't turn these words into fluff, they're not meant to be this way! And there are many who feel like me. Cog lives in a mental cardboard box that's leaking due to the rain of reality pouring down on it, so he can't really grasp what I'm saying. But there's hope for him.

I see my younger brother wanting to be a rapper, and I wish he'd just stay in school. But no, it's better to get his GED so he can work at Wendy's and buy fake bling bling. He has another thing coming if he thinks he's gonna live in peace with me with such a mindset. I've already told him I'd make his death look like natural causes.

The problem is that many in our society aren't watching what we let our youngsters absorb. I don't even watch TV much anymore, because I'm so sickened by what I see on it. It's so vain and selfish, all this reality crap, many "musicians" can't do more than smile, wear stylish clothes, and carry a bad tune in a plastic bucket. And yet society worships such things.

At the age of 12, my mother had me reading Maya Angelou, Mildred D. Taylor, James Baldwin, and any autobiography on great African Americans in history that she could find. Her goal was to teach me that there was more than what my peers presented to me. And I caught hell for "acting like a white person" (in other words, staying out of trouble, not getting pregnant, speaking proper english, and keeping a job). But when I look at the alternatives, and I look at my kin who struggle, I'm glad she did it.

Cog Ditz, we don't need you to tell us what our problems are. We need you to stop being such a damn bigot and be understanding. Outside of the five years that I spent in the church, I had ONE incident of racist treatment in all my life. I've never felt animosity from a white person outside of being told I'm black because I f'ed it up in the pre-existence. When you bring my God into the picture, naturally that hurts. But you being so pure, white, and delightsome (gag), you don't get this.

These issues you bring up on the off topic forum, so you can be satisfied with the cool echo your words make, have been said by black people already. Those with far more intelligence and promise than you show here. Get a hobby.

[_Coggins7]

LOL, I'll have to look at that later.

I find it so funny that Cog is trying to solve the problems of the Black Community.

I wouldn't dream of it...

He acts like we as a whole are so dumb, and need his asenine person to teach us.

No, there is a large silent majority out there who do not need Jesse Jackson or pompous white liberals like Scratch...

Because it's just too far-fetched for this individual to think that any one of us (black people) has a mind of his or her own.

Yes indeed, that's what the left believes.

Here's my opinion on the "state of my people".It's f*cking disturbing. And I'm not the only one who thinks so. When Russell Simmons comes out and says we need to take certain words out of the lyrics of Hip Hop culture, then obviously there's a problem. Imus needs his job back, it's rediculous for the black community to use words like "bitch", "ho" "bitchho" "n*gga", etc amongst themselves, and pretty much give everyone but white people free license to use those words.

Hip Hop doen't give me license to do squat. That which is wrong, is wrong, period, regardless of skin color.

Because that's what's happening...still. You can't turn these words into fluff, they're not meant to be this way! And there are many who feel like me. Cog lives in a mental cardboard box that's leaking due to the rain of reality pouring down on it, so he can't really grasp what I'm saying. But there's hope for him.

No, I live in a world in which barbarism and cultural degeneration can be called precisely what they are regardless of the color of the skin or ethnicity of the barbarian.

I see my younger brother wanting to be a rapper, and I wish he'd just stay in school. But no, it's better to get his GED so he can work at Wendy's and buy fake bling bling. He has another thing coming if he thinks he's gonna live in peace with me with such a mindset. I've already told him I'd make his death look like natural causes.

I understand Wendy's managers do pretty well...

The problem is that many in our society aren't watching what we let our youngsters absorb. I don't even watch TV much anymore, because I'm so sickened by what I see on it. It's so vain and selfish, all this reality crap, many "musicians" can't do more than smile, wear stylish clothes, and carry a bad tune in a plastic bucket. And yet society worships such things.

Right on GIMR...

At the age of 12, my mother had me reading Maya Angelou, Mildred D. Taylor, James Baldwin, and any autobiography on great African Americans in history that she could find. Her goal was to teach me that there was more than what my peers presented to me. And I caught hell for "acting like a white person" (in other words, staying out of trouble, not getting pregnant, speaking proper English, and keeping a job). But when I look at the alternatives, and I look at my kin who struggle, I'm glad she did it.

Well, when I was your age, I was reading A.E. Van Vogt, James Blish, Frank Herbert (I started Dune in sixth grade), Robert E. Howard, Edger Rice Burroughs, Larry Niven, and you can see.

Yes. There was much more than my peers presented to me.

Cog Ditz, we don't need you to tell us what our problems are. We need you to stop being such a damn bigot and be understanding. Outside of the five years that I spent in the church, I had ONE incident of racist treatment in all my life. I've never felt animosity from a white person outside of being told I'm black because I f'ed it up in the pre-existence. When you bring my God into the picture, naturally that hurts. But you being so pure, white, and delightsome (gag), you don't get this.

I have nothing...nothing, because I am white, and the church does not teach that I do. If I--and you--do not endure to the end, and keep the commandments of God, what happened in the preexistence in moot. Our "race" and our ethnic background here certainly does have something to do with our preexistent state, in the sense that our own unique personality and intelligence necessitated a particular kind of mortal experience, but you place far too much weight on the actual and claimed opinions of Church leaders who did not, at various times, have a full understanding of all things relating to lineage and its relation to the pre-mortal experience.

I do not have that knowledge myself

Some of it is available withing a Patriarchal Blessing.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do.


Loran

[_Sam Harris]

It's simply stupid to try to state that people are certain colors or suffer in certain ways because of things they did before they got here.

Your church leaders were just speaking out of their necks alongside the other individuals of the time in which this belief was prevalent. The only difference is everyone else has let go, but when you claim to be the highest truth and the only truth, "my bad" doesn't fit into the equation.

God does not create ugly. People do.

And my patriarchal blessing had one tidbit of knowledge in it that I've hung onto, outside the lies about a temple marriage (can't get married if they don't come near you, now I've left, I can't fend the men off fast enough...nothing different other than some good self esteem and more men to choose from other than inexperienced RMs), not to mention what tribe I came from. It was the truth that in my darkest hour God loves me and weeps when I do. I didn't need to be LDS to learn that. In fact, none of the good I took from the church (outside of folks like Moksha) can be seen to be exclusive to the church.

[_Coggins7]

it's simply stupid to try to state that people are certain colors or suffer in certain ways because of things they did before they got here.

Firstly, I see know reason not to believe, if one accepts the doctrine of the preexistences as a given, why the time, place, era, circumstances, and ethicinity of one's birth are not conditioned by the unique experiences necessary for us during mortality and conditioned by the particular characteristics developed and nurtured in that preexistent state.

Secondly, there isn't any doctrine in the Church that anyone suffers here because of things done in the preexistence. Suffering is a natural and necessary aspect of mortality, and any particular suffering (being born with a serious handicap or birth defect etc.) has nothing to do with "things we did" before we got here, but only who we were before we got here and what this means for our particular mortal experience. See the difference? Of course, if you don't accept the doctrine of the preexistence at face value, then these points are moot.

Your church leaders were just speaking out of their necks alongside the other individuals of the time in which this belief was prevalent. The only difference is everyone else has let go, but when you claim to be the highest truth and the only truth, "my bad" doesn't fit into the equation.

What belief?

God does not create ugly. People do.

Huh??

And my patriarchal blessing had one tidbit of knowledge in it that I've hung onto, outside the lies about a temple marriage (can't get married if they don't come near you, now I've left, I can't fend the men off fast enough...nothing different other than some good self esteem and more men to choose from other than inexperienced RMs), not to mention what tribe I came from. It was the truth that in my darkest hour God loves me and weeps when I do. I didn't need to be LDS to learn that. In fact, none of the good I took from the church (outside of folks like Moksha) can be seen to be exclusive to the church.

At some point you should really divest yourself of your hate, bigotry, bitterness, and guilt and get on with your life. Your preposterous claims about the Church and its people aren't compelling GIMR; they only sound like the bitter rantings of someone in desperate need of a scapegoat to compensate for some other gaping and empty space in their lives.

I suppose we'll never hear about that illimitable void here, but no matter. Its there nonetheless.