TBMs and MMM

[_truth dancer]

I have been convinced that human beings can justify anything and everything.

I happen to think it has to do with the neurology of belief but for whatever reason it is clear to me that when faced with evidence that could threaten one's belief/life/sense of self/whatever, people (true believers), can come up with a way to "rationalize" (in some sort of convoluted way) anything!

It would take two minutes for believers to justify BYs behavior if there was proof he ordered the murders.

God's ways are not man's ways...
We do not see the bigger picture... God was actually saving the victims from future sorrow and evil...
Better that these people perish than they create dissention or problems for the church...
We don't know what these people had planned but God knows their heart... they were actually evil.
"God said", BY was just being obedient, like Moses of old...
We all die and in God's time, their lives were just shorted by a few years for the greater good...
Etc., etc., etc.

:-(

~dancer~

[_ajax18]

Nehor even if Brigham Young didn't order the MMM, that doesn't explain why David O'McKay reinstated John Lee post mortem. When has this ever been done with people who were excommunicted? It seemed like they wanted to quietly admit to the family that he was only doing what he was ordered.

They did the same thing with other apostates, Lyman Wight comes to mind.

Well that's interesting. The question then is why? Which apostates do they do this for, and what is it depedent upon?

[_The Nehor]

True devotion to Christ is incompatible with their actions. Comparable to Pharisees, Zoramites, and the Republican Party.

John C. Bennett was one of the instigators of the Nauvoo persecution. He fooled Joseph about his sincerity.

LOL on the Republican party! You heretic!

Do you believe that the perpetrators believed they were doing God's will? I'm not talking about whether or not YOU believe they were doing God's will.

No, I don't think they did. I think they wanted to do it and quickly conjured up a false god that fit in their own image. People do it all the time.

[_The Nehor]

Nehor even if Brigham Young didn't order the MMM, that doesn't explain why David O'McKay reinstated John Lee post mortem. When has this ever been done with people who were excommunicted? It seemed like they wanted to quietly admit to the family that he was only doing what he was ordered.

They did the same thing with other apostates, Lyman Wight comes to mind.

Well that's interesting. The question then is why? Which apostates do they do this for, and what is it depedent upon?

My impression is their descendants request it and it's done.

[_Blixa]

You should read up on what they had to go through to get Lee reinstated.

[_beastie]

No, I don't think they did. I think they wanted to do it and quickly conjured up a false god that fit in their own image. People do it all the time.

Why conjure up a "false god" if they knew they weren't doing God's will?

[_TAK]

Why do LDS believers protest so heartily against the idea of Brigham Young's complicity in MMM?

Let's say the evidence was incontrovertible, and BY really was involved in the planning of MMM, not just the cover up. Based on their past history, TBMs would just chalk it up to cultural influence and point to all the bad behavior of Biblical prophets to prove that God doesn't care too much about the characters of his vessels.

If it was shown that BY was behind the murder of 120 innocent men, women and children it would be a nightmare in terms of PR. - How could BYU keep its name?

Beyond that, if BY was behind that - I wonder what legal recourse the decedents of the Fancher Train might have against the Church today??

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Why do LDS believers protest so heartily against the idea of Brigham Young's complicity in MMM?

in my opinion, because it would reflect poorly on the part of the Church institution, which is viewed as infallible. I know of no instance in the Church's 177-year history where the Brethren, on behalf of the Church institution, have admitted error or apologized for an action; to do so would suggest the Church is not always led by the Lord and that the Brethren, in their roles as prophets, seers and revelators, make mistakes.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Why do LDS believers protest so heartily against the idea of Brigham Young's complicity in MMM?

Let's say the evidence was incontrovertible, and BY really was involved in the planning of MMM, not just the cover up. Based on their past history, TBMs would just chalk it up to cultural influence and point to all the bad behavior of Biblical prophets to prove that God doesn't care too much about the characters of his vessels.

If it was shown that BY was behind the murder of 120 innocent men, women and children it would be a nightmare in terms of PR. - How could BYU keep its name?

Beyond that, if BY was behind that - I wonder what legal recourse the decedents of the Fancher Train might have against the Church today??

This is a good point. I heard rumors that Hinckley's comments at the 1999 memorial were carefully examined by the church legal department beforehand. IF evidence came to light that did implicate Brigham Young, there might possibly be legal implications for the church as an institution. I'm no lawyer, so I'm just making a guess here. This may be why the church and apologists protest BY's complicity so strongly. There is no statute of limitations for murder. They can admit to the fraud of the Book of Abraham, and the illegal practice of polygamy, and other early Mormon frauds. There's nothing anyone can do about that. But there might possibly be legal options available to people for MMM.

[_The Nehor]

No, I don't think they did. I think they wanted to do it and quickly conjured up a false god that fit in their own image. People do it all the time.

Why conjure up a "false god" if they knew they weren't doing God's will?

Because someone wanted to do what he did.