Ray A gets away with murder on MADB

[_Blixa]

Here, here.

(Oh, by the way, Nehor. I vote you can never change your avatar. There's something just so "you" about your face!)

[_wenglund]

For what it is worth (which is likely not much to some here), I don't know that you effectively counter Ray's points by assasinating his character. In fact, given that Ray is an "exmo", you may even be inadvertantly confirming what he says and more (demonstrating that your anger and animus may know no bounds).

More importantly, such extreme reactions tend to fomment rather than resolve the anger or animus between all parties.

In other words, in multiple ways, your reactions may be counterproductive--assuming that you care.

Bond mentioned earlier in the thread that organized religion is getting in the way of humans getting along with each other. Yet those here who have responded quite divisively, tend to eschew organized religion.

Now, rather than asking "why", might it not prove more useful to all parties for us to focus instead on finding ways to encourage mutual love, respect, and value. (Yes, Beastie, I have already made this suggestion on the thread in question.)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Runtu]

For what it is worth (which is likely not much to some here), I don't know that you effectively counter Ray's points by assasinating his character. In fact, given that Ray is an "exmo", you may even be inadvertantly confirming what he says and more (demonstrating that your anger and animus may know no bounds).

More importantly, such extreme reactions tend to fomment rather than resolve the anger or animus between all parties.

In other words, in multiple ways, your reactions may be counterproductive--assuming that you care.

Bond mentioned earlier in the thread that organized religion is getting in the way of humans getting along with each other. Yet those here who have responded quite divisively, tend to eschew organized religion.

Now, rather than asking "why", might it not prove more useful to all parties for us to focus instead on finding ways to encourage mutual love, respect, and value. (Yes, Beastie, I have already made this suggestion on the thread in question.)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm not angry with Ray, and I am not sure you could say anyone here is. I'm more mystified and sad that he's done what he's done. If I said, "I'll never trust another Mormon again," you'd rightly call me a bigot. Ray says the same thing and is applauded. That makes me sad, Wade, particularly since I had always gotten along well with Ray. I don't know that there's much any of us could say to gain Ray's love and respect at this point.

[_wenglund]

For what it is worth (which is likely not much to some here), I don't know that you effectively counter Ray's points by assasinating his character. In fact, given that Ray is an "exmo", you may even be inadvertantly confirming what he says and more (demonstrating that your anger and animus may know no bounds).

More importantly, such extreme reactions tend to fomment rather than resolve the anger or animus between all parties.

In other words, in multiple ways, your reactions may be counterproductive--assuming that you care.

Bond mentioned earlier in the thread that organized religion is getting in the way of humans getting along with each other. Yet those here who have responded quite divisively, tend to eschew organized religion.

Now, rather than asking "why", might it not prove more useful to all parties for us to focus instead on finding ways to encourage mutual love, respect, and value. (Yes, Beastie, I have already made this suggestion on the thread in question.)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm not angry with Ray, and I am not sure you could say anyone here is. I'm more mystified and sad that he's done what he's done. If I said, "I'll never trust another Mormon again," you'd rightly call me a bigot. Ray says the same thing and is applauded. That makes me sad, Wade, particularly since I had always gotten along well with Ray. I don't know that there's much any of us could say to gain Ray's love and respect at this point.

I can't make any gaurantees, but there was a time when Ray and I were going hard and heavy at each other, but we now have considerable respect for each other (at least I have great respect for him), and so I think there is a good chance as long as the focus is as I have suggested. Certainly, it won't happen through piling-on Ray, or assassinating his character (not that you personally did).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_harmony]

I can't make any gaurantees, but there was a time when Ray and I were going hard and heavy at each other, but we now have considerable respect for each other (at least I have great respect for him), and so I think there is a good chance as long as the focus is as I have suggested. Certainly, it won't happen through piling-on Ray, or assassinating his character (not that you personally did).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ray could stand to learn the Golden Rule. Especially if he's complaining about how he's being done to.

[_The Nehor]

Here, here.

(Oh, by the way, Nehor. I vote you can never change your avatar. There's something just so "you" about your face!)

I'll leave it.......for now.

[_wenglund]

I can't make any gaurantees, but there was a time when Ray and I were going hard and heavy at each other, but we now have considerable respect for each other (at least I have great respect for him), and so I think there is a good chance as long as the focus is as I have suggested. Certainly, it won't happen through piling-on Ray, or assassinating his character (not that you personally did).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ray could stand to learn the Golden Rule. Especially if he's complaining about how he's being done to.

Okay, that tells us what you think Ray could do. However, it doesn't tell us what you may suggest that YOU and others could learn or do so as to better contribute to productive and mutually respectful interfaith dialogue. I would be interested to hear the latter.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Blixa]

Here, here.

(Oh, by the way, Nehor. I vote you can never change your avatar. There's something just so "you" about your face!)

I'll leave it.......for now.

Whew!

[_Blixa]

Wade:

Okay, that tells us what you think Ray could do. However, it doesn't tell us what you may suggest that YOU and others could learn or do so as to better contribute to productive and mutually respectful interfaith dialogue. I would be interested to hear the latter.

It strikes me, wade, that outside of general good manners (the golden rule!) it's a kind of case-by-case thing.

As far as Ray goes, my response would be in the future to avoid his posts. I don't mean that to sound snide either. I just don't think I can productively contribute to the kind of "discussion" he was flinging around recently. I say "flinging" because it wasn't just one thread, it was the same harangue brought to nearly every thread. Though I suppose I could try to step in and suggest less emotionalism, or try to put the thread back on topic.

I'll also try to not rise to the bait of intentionally provocative posters. Mea culpa for getting pissy with a recent one.

[_wenglund]

Wade:

Okay, that tells us what you think Ray could do. However, it doesn't tell us what you may suggest that YOU and others could learn or do so as to better contribute to productive and mutually respectful interfaith dialogue. I would be interested to hear the latter.

It strikes me, wade, that outside of general good manners (the golden rule!) it's a kind of case-by-case thing.

As far as Ray goes, my response would be in the future to avoid his posts. I don't mean that to sound snide either. I just don't think I can productively contribute to the kind of "discussion" he was flinging around recently. I say "flinging" because it wasn't just one thread, it was the same harangue brought to nearly every thread. Though I suppose I could try to step in and suggest less emotionalism, or try to put the thread back on topic.

I'll also try to not rise to the bait of intentionally provocative posters. Mea culpa for getting pissy with a recent one.

I can understand that avoidance might be preferred to entering the frey or piling on. While it may not build bridges or improve interfaith relations, at least with avoidance there is less of a chance of burning bridges or expanding the divide like may be expected from piling on and entering the frey, and there may even be the personal benefit derived from not contributing to the corrosive interactions.

Sadly, there are those who may not be open to building bridges or closing the divide or working towards mutual respect, etc., and so avoidance may be the only preferrable alternative. In fact, I have found this to be the case with several participants on this board. However, from my own experience with Ray, I don't think he is that way. If one treats him with respect, he will give respect in return--that is if he hasn't been respectful already to begin with (I have found him, on balance, to be innitially respectful and reasonable).

At least it work for me with Ray.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-