Gazelam wrote:vegas, An 8 year old knows the difference between right and wrong, that's all that's asked of them.
Not necessarily, Gaz. Typically an 8 year old is rule bound. That is to say, they follow the rules that have been dicatated to them, but don't always understand why the rule exists. They aren't able to engage in moral reasoning. Were you thinking of something else?
Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Here Gaz, this is what Piaget shows us. The first will be brief comments regarding a child in pre-operations (4-7 years old) and then a blurb on concrete operations(7-12 years old). The 8 year old is somewhere in between these two stages of development.
Preoperations:
Intuitive Phase
(4-7 years) Speech becomes more social, less egocentric. The child has an intuitive grasp of logical concepts in some areas. However, there is still a tendency to focus attention on one aspect of an object while ignoring others. Concepts formed are crude and irreversible. Easy to believe in magical increase, decrease, disappearance. Reality not firm. Perceptions dominate judgment.
In moral-ethical realm, the child is not able to show principles underlying best behavior. Rules of a game not develop, only uses simple do's and don'ts imposed by authority.
(That's what I meant by rule bound in the previous post)
Concrete Operations:
Concrete Operational Stage
The concrete operational stage is the third stage in Piaget's theory. This stage typically occurs between the ages of 7 and 12.
During this stage, the child begins to reason logically, and organize thoughts coherently. However, they can only think about acutal physical objects, they cannot handle abstract reasoning.
This stage is also characterized by a loss of egocentric thinking.
During this stage, the child has the ability to master most types of conservationexperiments, and begins to understand reversibility. The concrete operational stage is also characterized by the child's ability to coordinatetwo dimensions of an object simultaneously, arrange structures in sequence, and transpose differences between items in a series
If you don't understand the descriptions, just ask me. You can get more information on Piaget anywhere on line and try Erik Erikson for personality development. Look for information on moral development. Really....pick up a book.
Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
You rmaking my po9int Jersey. A child doesent need to understand a concept in depth to know the difference between right and wrong. A basic knowledge is all that is required. With that basic concept in place, they receive the gift of the Holy Ghost to assist them in their gaining of this new tool.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
Gazelam wrote:You rmaking my po9int Jersey. A child doesent need to understand a concept in depth to know the difference between right and wrong. A basic knowledge is all that is required. With that basic concept in place, they receive the gift of the Holy Ghost to assist them in their gaining of this new tool.
I'll cut to the chase. An 8 year old couldn't understand the abstract concept of the "gift of the Holy Ghost". 8 years old is prime time for a child to say "yes" to any authority figure, without question. The only exception I'd offer here would be the gifted child who is capable of processing and reasoning on a higher level than their chronological age would indicate.
Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Gazelam wrote:You rmaking my po9int Jersey. A child doesent need to understand a concept in depth to know the difference between right and wrong. A basic knowledge is all that is required. With that basic concept in place, they receive the gift of the Holy Ghost to assist them in their gaining of this new tool.
That is to say, Gaz, that if the "rule" in the specific religious community that the child is being raised in, is that people are baptized at age 8, the child will comply. If that is the case, the child isn't making a choice for baptism, the child is simply obeying the accepted "rule" within the religious culture.
Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Gazelam wrote:vegas, An 8 year old knows the difference between right and wrong, that's all that's asked of them.
They do? I'd like to see an eight year old get the same questions on ethics a 19 year old goes over in a undergrad Philosophy class.
Sing along with me... "One of these things is not like the other...One of these things does not belong"
That strikes me as irrelevant. The average 19-year old undergrad sins more in a week than an 8-year old in a year :)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Here is Piaget again from the Kohlberg link I supplied:
Piaget studied many aspects of moral judgment, but most of his findings fit into a two-stage theory. Children younger than 10 or 11 years think about moral dilemmas one way; older children consider them differently. As we have seen, younger children regard rules as fixed and absolute. They believe that rules are handed down by adults or by God and that one cannot change them. The older child's view is more relativistic. He or she understands that it is permissible to change rules if everyone agrees. Rules are not sacred and absolute but are devices which humans use to get along cooperatively.
Now look at the part I'm bolding in the following:
At approximately the same time--10 or 11 years--children's moral thinking undergoes other shifts. In particular, younger children base their moral judgments more on consequences, whereas older children base their judgments on intentions. When, for example, the young child hears about one boy who broke 15 cups trying to help his mother and another boy who broke only one cup trying to steal cookies, the young child thinks that the first boy did worse. The child primarily considers the amount of damage--the consequences--whereas the older child is more likely to judge wrongness in terms of the motives underlying the act (Piaget, 1932, p. 137).
Gaz, do you care how children think?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Where does "pay, pray, and obey" include the word think?
Did you really have to ask?
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen