Church: what can draw us in and drive us away?

[_Who Knows]

When I become a deity I intend to give my wife the option to be worshipped too if she wants :)

And who's going to worship her?

[_The Nehor]

And who's going to worship her?

Our children I assume.....that and the cosmos itself of course.

[_Who Knows]

Our children I assume.....that and the cosmos itself of course.

So how are your children going to know who their mom is? Assuming that the billions of children on your planets come from many different mothers, are you going to somehow let each of them know which 'mother' their mother is (so they can worship the correct mother)?

[_The Dude]

The comment that "the church has evolved to a place where it focuses on basic Christian principles" makes me ask: why has it evolved in this direction? Isn't it because the Church is based in a strongly Christian nation? The Church is trying to be mainstream, so basic christianity is like a gravity well that the Church is sliding into. The next step would be entering a global mainstream where the LDS faith evolves towards even more basic principles that are good and bring peace to mankind. As Mormon-specific beliefs have been de-emphasized in our generation, Christian-specific beliefs could eventually be de-emphasized to increase the appeal in nations where christianity is not the common denominator.

I guess once it evolves to the point where it just focuses on basic human principles that are good and bring us peace, then I too would consider going back. I'll certainly be dead first, but my kids might still be on the earth.

[_ajax18]

The comment that "the church has evolved to a place where it focuses on basic Christian principles" makes me ask: why has it evolved in this direction? Isn't it because the Church is based in a strongly Christian nation? The Church is trying to be mainstream, so basic christianity is like a gravity well that the Church is sliding into. The next step would be entering a global mainstream where the LDS faith evolves towards even more basic principles that are good and bring peace to mankind. As Mormon-specific beliefs have been de-emphasized in our generation, Christian-specific beliefs could eventually be de-emphasized to increase the appeal in nations where christianity is not the common denominator.

I guess once it evolves to the point where it just focuses on basic human principles that are good and bring us peace, then I too would consider going back. I'll certainly be dead first, but my kids might still be on the earth.

I don't know. It still seems pretty expensive. There's a lot of things that would have to be true before I would happily invest so much in it again.

[_The Nehor]

So how are your children going to know who their mom is? Assuming that the billions of children on your planets come from many different mothers, are you going to somehow let each of them know which 'mother' their mother is (so they can worship the correct mother)?

I don't expect to have more than one wife.

[_Yoda]

I left because it wasn't true. But even if it were true, I don't think I'd go back. The Mormon god is such an @Q#$%@$#% that I'd rather go to Outer Darkness than worship him! I can't think of a thing that would make me go back!

KA

That's the beauty of Mormonism though. You really don't have to deal with god, because you'd be your own god governing your own planets, and answering prayers for billions of people. You just wouldn't have time to even think about the other god.

edit - woops. sorry. you'll just be a wife among many others while your hubby does all of the above.

yeah, you're right. outer darkness probably does sound more appealing.

Party in Outer Darkness!!!!

[_Seven]

Below is a quote from Seven, that I thought would be an interesting topic for the Celestial board. There are many ways to understand and appreciate the Church, but there can be many dissatisfiers to cope with and resolve along the way as well. I thought this might be a way of exploring both the ties we can feel toward the Church and as well as the dissatisfiers that can drive us away.

For me, it's simple. I'd go back if it were true.

I left because it wasn't.

Is it really that simple though? If God came to you and revealed that you were wrong, and Joseph Smith was a true Prophet, would that bring you right back to church and in full support of the leadership today?
If you look at the history of good men and women who left the church after claiming to be actual witnesses to the validity of Joseph Smith's prophetic claims, I don't believe it's that easy or they would have stayed. If in good consience/ through the Spirit you know that a church doctrine or policy is harmful to mankind, why would any person stay and support that organization? I believe if the restoration of the Priesthood is "true" and required for ordinances, it is a seperate issue than supporting all that the church requires us to believe. Change can't happen in a church if members don't make a stand for what is right. TBMs will deny it but they blindly follow church leaders and history has proven it. When they support policies and doctrine that are sexist, immoral, racist etc. in the name of obedience they are not excercising their own right to personal revelation like those that have left the church long ago. It took until 1978 to lift the racist cloud over the church when it should have never been there had members refused to support it.

If you look at how something even becomes a true doctrine in the LDS church, it requires the support and consent of the LDS membership. Unfortunately, most members will never use the voice they have to change what they know in their heart is wrong. I am using my voice, however meaningless it may be among the millions of "sheep."

Church for me is a place to worship God/Jesus with those who share my beliefs. It's not a place to attend because it's "the true church." (it used to be in my Chapel Mormon days) Once I learned church history and that the Prophets teachings or doctrine are "opinion" when it suits the times, I have a new understanding of the church's role. My own personal revelations are my truth now and if the church is in sync with what is good and beneficial for mankind, then I may support it.

There are many other issues besides doctrine that go against my beliefs so it's not that this one issue is keeping me from church. It was the one issue that initially had me searching and led me away from it, but not the only reason. I strongly oppose the focus on Joseph Smith, which borders on worship. It really troubles me to see members parallel his life to Christ and I don't feel comfortable with this part of Mormonism. White washing of history is a big one for me, bigotry of those who leave or question is a very personal issue now, the infallible view of the teachings/revelations of Prophets is disturbing (no matter how apologists deny it, that is the view held by the majority), etc. There are several areas of change I may need to see before I will feel comfortable worshiping in an LDS church. Polygamy is the main one for me for it's burden on women in the church that struggle to accept it as Godly, and destruction of the sanctity of marriage, which LDS hold so dearly.

[_Mary]

KA, I was interested in your comments regarding the LDS conception of the nature of God???

Could you clarify a little bit?

I agree that there are aspects of the LDS God that I cannot agree with, but I'll add to that the idea that many other christian movements ideas of God seem no better, and in some cases, indeed a lot worse.

When Juliann states that the LDS idea of the afterlife is more liberal than many other christian denominations, I do have to agree with her to a point.


I do think that christianity, Islam and Judaism are very patriarchal in nature (LDS up there with the best or worst of them), males get the greatest and the most diabolical roles, (which seems a pity), and the females are for whatever reason, in a supportive or hidden role.

Psychologically, I do think that this has effected many western laws and regulations that have had a great knock on effect for how women are viewed at home, at school and in the workplace.

Actually even where the female is deified, it seems to have historically been linked to fertility and the renewal of life, which again puts women in only one of their many roles and capabilities. (Sophia might be one of the exceptions from within Judaism)

I don't think this problem is even confined to religion. I know my son is developing some 'sexist' ideas about women and seems to respond better in school to male teachers. Which is a pity, since most of them in primary schools tend to be female.

Anyway, I digress.

I'd be interested to know why you find the LDS concept of God so unpallatable. I'm not saying that I don't partly agree with you. But even with Joseph Smiths twists and turns (as well as Rigdon etc) I think a loving and kind, gentle, forgiving 'parent' God can still be found??

Mary

[_Who Knows]

I don't expect to have more than one wife.

Well, then you won't be a 'deity' i guess. That's cool, you can hang with the rest of us satan worshippers in the tel. kingdom.