Testimonies and what they contain

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Gazelam wrote:I think theres an attitude in the church that we have to seperate ourselves from the other churchs, and while we in the Church have a deep love of Jesus Christ, we avoid frequent and fawning praise to him. We do this just so that we don't sound like the evangelicals or televangelists or whatever.

No one understands Christ better than we do, but we have somewhat handicapped ourselves and tied one hand behind our backs in our efforts to "not be like them".

I'll make it a point to praise Christ next time I attend FATM.


Gaz,

That post ticks me off. It looks like you're saying that in order to make yourself "not be like them"...you avoid praising the Savior.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO ANYONE????????????????????

Jersey Girl


I think Gaz'a conclusion is Gaz's conclusion and nobody else's. The Church leaders, a number of years ago, directed that all talks in Sacrament meeting should be Christ oriented. Any talk from a GA I have heard that tells us what a testimony is begins with testimony of Jesus. The Church added to the Book of Mormon title "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" over 20 years ago, and the church made the name Jesus Christ more prominent in its logo.

Frankly, Gaz's speculation is all wet.
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Pokatator wrote:His name is on the building.
His name is after every prayer.

Other than those hollow and trite uses; but for the most part the Lord, Jesus Christ is not mentioned.

Reminds me of: Matt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.


Oh horse crap. Jesus Christ is mentioned ALLL THE TIME!!

Go back and review a few years of conference talks.
_Pokatator
_Emeritus
Posts: 1417
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:38 pm

Post by _Pokatator »

Jason Bourne wrote:
Pokatator wrote:His name is on the building.
His name is after every prayer.

Other than those hollow and trite uses; but for the most part the Lord, Jesus Christ is not mentioned.

Reminds me of: Matt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.


Oh horse crap. Jesus Christ is mentioned ALLL THE TIME!!

Go back and review a few years of conference talks.


My perspective is from individual testimonies of the rank and file at F/T meetings. I have actually tracked the numbers, listening for references to Jesus Christ, they are few and far between except for the closing.
_Seven
_Emeritus
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:52 pm

Post by _Seven »

Pokatator wrote:My perspective is from individual testimonies of the rank and file at F/T meetings. I have actually tracked the numbers, listening for references to Jesus Christ, they are few and far between except for the closing.


I have to agree with Pokatator. This was something I had noticed even in my Chapel Mormon days but when I was first going through the pain of learning Joseph's Smith's history, I realized even more how much focus was on him instead of Christ. I began to look for members to mention Jesus, but he was sort of thrown in at the end among their ramblings of love and praise for Joseph Smith and the church. I began to stay home from Sacrament on testimony day because it had bothered me so much. I have been in several Wards and it's usually the same. It's not that Christ's name is always left out, but he is mentioned so casually that it's almost not noticed. There are the occasional members who try to focus their testimonies on Chirst but they were rare in my experience. My father was one who always left out Joseph Smith from his testimony (intentionally) and focused it on God and Jesus. He always stood out from the rest.

What was even worse was that the year I had started reading Church history, it was the same year they were celebrating Joseph Smith's 200th B-day. This made attending church even more challenging for me. In Primary, the President was doing an activity in December for the kids. She asked them to name the special person who had a birthday in December, and then named all his wonderful qualities. When the kids raised their hands to answer "Jesus Christ" she had to tell them "no, I am thinking of someone else...." (the entire focus for December, well the year really, was on Joseph Smith) The kids looked so confused with Christmas and all. I wanted to barf.

Many testimonies will include a story or two of something "spiritual" that happened to the member that month, confirming that God answered their prayers. Tears most often are a part of testimonies. There is usually a family that gets up every single month, and there is always a fanatical TBM or two that have some crazy spritual experience to make the meeting entertaining. When one of the wackier members gets up, the missionaries must feel uncomfortable with the investigators watching.

The most awkward time of testimony meeting is when nobody gets up and it's silent.

One of the most memorable meetings for me as a teenager was when a well loved faithful member, good husband and father, who got up and stated "I don't KNOW the church is true, but I have faith and believe it's true." It bothered some of the other members so much that a few of them got up and tried to tell him that they "KNOW that HE KNOWS it's true." Pretty funny. I was impressed with the man's honesty as a young girl.
"Happiness is the object and design of our existence...
That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another." Joseph Smith
_Seven
_Emeritus
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:52 pm

Post by _Seven »

Jason Bourne wrote:
Pokatator wrote:His name is on the building.
His name is after every prayer.

Other than those hollow and trite uses; but for the most part the Lord, Jesus Christ is not mentioned.

Reminds me of: Matt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.


Oh horse crap. Jesus Christ is mentioned ALLL THE TIME!!

Go back and review a few years of conference talks.


In Conference talks Christ is the focus, but not fast and testimony meeting.
"Happiness is the object and design of our existence...
That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another." Joseph Smith
_Gazelam
_Emeritus
Posts: 5659
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Jersey

Post by _Gazelam »

I mean no insult by the comment I made. Quite the opposite.

Theres a mentality in the church regarding other faiths. We understand that we are the only church that has the authority to baptise and seal covenants. So there is a certain attitude that is taken when viewing other churchs. This can handicap a persons viewpoint if this attitude becomes twisted.

that's what I'm getting at. When a Mormon views how evangelicals praise Christ, it enters into their subconcious that "We can't talk about Christ that way because we are different". The fact of the matter is that its right and proper to praise Christ, who is God, and is our Redeemer and Savior. Its not something that's talked about or discussed, and I doubt that many members even realize that they do it. It might even be considered a type of "Seige" mentality.

I'd also add that with all of the other doctrine and knowledge we have in the church, its easy to testify of all of these other things that make the faith unique, thereby passing on bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, since its a "generally understood" type of thing.

I don't know, just some thoughts.

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Mercury
_Emeritus
Posts: 5545
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Re: Testimonies and what they contain

Post by _Mercury »

moksha wrote:I have noticed that most of the testimonies in my ward offered during our Fast and Testimony Meeting time, contain no reference to God or Jesus but most all invariably contain the statement that "I know this is the true Church". Since I personally identify with progressive Christianity, I would like to hear more devotion to Jesus, but that's just me and I can't really impact what is important to my fellow members.

Has this been your experience as well?


During my ~25 year experiences with F&T meeting I found that it was used for several things.

1. A soapbox for the well to do Mormons to tell the plebs how good they have it

2. Petty "shout outs"

3. indoctrination of children through ritual conformity in front of an audience

4. Maintaining ones appearances in the ward through going through the testimony motions, an act of "housekeeping"
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Re: Jersey

Post by _harmony »

Gazelam wrote:I mean no insult by the comment I made. Quite the opposite.

Theres a mentality in the church regarding other faiths. We understand that we are the only church that has the authority to baptise and seal covenants. So there is a certain attitude that is taken when viewing other churchs. This can handicap a persons viewpoint if this attitude becomes twisted.


*sigh* We think we are the only church that has the authority... blah blah blah. That doesn't mean that we are the only church that has the authority... blah blah blah. I think I'm best the there is at my job, but that's doesn't mean that I am. We can claim all we want, but that doesn't give us authority, power, or anything else. And until you can come up with at least a canonized DATE for the restoration of the highest priesthood, you're going to be hard-pressed to back your claim with evidence. (The lack of the date and place is notable and glaring. Joseph set up the church without the requisite authority to set it up. Tsk Tsk Tsk).
_Gazelam
_Emeritus
Posts: 5659
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Harmony

Post by _Gazelam »

We have no canonized date for the crucifixion and ressurection. I guess we're all screwed eh?

I have repeatedly given you all the known details regarding the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood. That they are not canonized really doesent matter.

Your being ridiculous.

And by the way, I don't think, I know. Your husband does as well, why don't you go talk to him and listen for once.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Post by _moksha »

Jason Bourne wrote:I think Gaz's conclusion is Gaz's conclusion and nobody else's. The Church leaders, a number of years ago, directed that all talks in Sacrament meeting should be Christ oriented.


Gaz may be speaking for some members, but I think Jersey Girl is right in that it does not make too much sense. To me, a testimony is sharing a statement of my core beliefs. Are we to assume that one's core beliefs are altered just to be contrary to what those other Churches' members find to be of importance? That would be bizarre, and yet we know that the bizarre does occur, which is why Gaz may be right in saying that is true for some LDS.

Perhaps the Church leaders, to follow what Jason said regarding talks, should urge members to consider making God and Jesus take priority in their belief system to any consideration to the truth of an institution or a person. The precedence for this has already been stated, in that Jesus appears in the official name of the Church.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Post Reply