"True" Churches

[_moksha]

[_The Nehor]

To quote Douglas Adams:

"People will then often say “But surely it’s better to remain an Agnostic just in case?” This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it. (If it turns out that I’ve been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would chose not to worship him anyway.)"

[_truth dancer]

"People will then often say “But surely it’s better to remain an Agnostic just in case?” This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it. (If it turns out that I’ve been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would chose not to worship him anyway.)"

Funny... I have often thought that IF it turned out that God was a kind of legalistic, cruel, demanding, tricky, manipulative, sneaky, quirky, unstable, deceptive, misleading, and capricious God as described by many religions, then I think I would chose not to worship "him" anyway. :-(

Personally, I have never, ever heard someone say the remain an Agnostic just in case. Hmmm... that doesn't even make any sense to me. If one wanted to cover their bases they would join all the churches, not none of them.

~dancer~

[Guest]

Deleted

[_truth dancer]

Individuals loose their ability to naturally follow their spiritual instincts, and thus they become dependent and addicted to the religion.

Very insightful...

I feel this was my conflict with the LDS church.

My personal spiritual experience conflicted with some of the teachings of the church... according to the church, my personal beliefs/experiences/insights were incorrect. Much of what I believed was holy was considered wrong, and much of what I thought were unhealthy teachings in the church were taught as godly. It made me dizzy

It was as if I was taught to not trust what was in my heart and mind.

:-)

~dancer~

[_Selah]

Solid Doctrine:

1. God exists.
2. Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Savior of the World.
3. Joseph Smith received the Keys of Presidency of the Holy Priesthood and those keys have been passed down in an unbroken chain to President Hinckley.
4. The canon of scripture (which is not infallible) consists of the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.
5. There was a Premortal Existence and there will be and is a Postmortal Existence.
6. The ordinances of salvation are administered by the Priesthood.
7. Drinking Dr. Pepper is the equivalent of injecting heroin directly into your eyes.

This is not a complete list, but a good starting point.

I thought the 13 AoF were a solid starting point? ;)

[Guest]

Deleted

[_Runtu]

Solid Doctrine:

1. God exists.
2. Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Savior of the World.
3. Joseph Smith received the Keys of Presidency of the Holy Priesthood and those keys have been passed down in an unbroken chain to President Hinckley.
4. The canon of scripture (which is not infallible) consists of the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.
5. There was a Premortal Existence and there will be and is a Postmortal Existence.
6. The ordinances of salvation are administered by the Priesthood.
7. Drinking Dr. Pepper is the equivalent of injecting heroin directly into your eyes.

This is not a complete list, but a good starting point.

I'm hopeful about the first two, but I'd say I disagree with the rest (other than the part about scripture not being infallible).

Ever have Dublin Dr. Pepper? Definitely not the equivalent of injecting heroin into your eyes. :-)

[_Sam Harris]

I am saddened by Gaz's remarks, because I garner from them that only certain people who posture in certain ways, and say certain things, not to mention dress a certain way, eat certain things (you get my point) will ever see God.

Why did God create a heart within mankind if it was not to matter in the ultimate judgement thereof?

When reading my friend Gaz's comments this came to mind, and I'm sure it's familiar to many of you here.

Matthew 23
Seven Woes
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'

8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

16"Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Don't think I get joy out of posting this, it is really quite sad, that someone can feel that they are more ready for heaven than someone else by their own interpretation of God, or by some other man's judgement. That to me, is very sad.

[_Gazelam]

The scripture you sight was Christ directing his comments towards a specific group. Men who had been appointed to execute righteous judgement over a people and who in turn had corrupted the doctrines and practices. The system of worship, or house rather, wasn't the problem, the corrupt teachers were.

I am saddened by Gaz's remarks, because I garner from them that only certain people who posture in certain ways, and say certain things, not to mention dress a certain way, eat certain things (you get my point) will ever see God.

Why did God create a heart within mankind if it was not to matter in the ultimate judgement thereof?

1 Cor. 12:27-29
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?


There is organization in Gods church, to ensure correct doctrine and practices. This has always been the case as long as there were a worthy people to listen to the spirit of the Lord.

If God himself were to dwell on the earth, would all beliefs remain on the earth? The church is the literal kingdom of God on earth, when Christ comes again he will take his place at the head of the church, and a theocracy over the earth will soon follow.

After the second coming, will Hindus remain? Will Muslims remain? Will carved tribal Gods remain? Which of the Christian beliefs will remain? Catholic? Protestant? Jehovahs Witness?

Which doctrines are correct? Are the Father and the Son the exact same person? Are infant children who die without baptism damned to hell? Does authority to act in Gods name simply come from a belief in Christ? Is baptism merely an outward showing of an inward conviction and not really necessary for salvation? Can no man ever see God? Were temples done away with at the end of the Law of Moses? Does marriage end with death? Are those who die without baptism having never heard the doctrines of Christ damned to hell?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth, solely possessing the authority to act in the name of God. It is the kingdom of God on earth, decrying false doctrine and declaring truth.

Test the doctrines it espouses against those preached by the others. They stand.

Gaz