"True" Churches

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Sam Harris
_Emeritus
Posts: 2261
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:35 am

Post by _Sam Harris »

Men who had been appointed to execute righteous judgement over a people and who in turn had corrupted the doctrines and practices.


Such can be said of the LDS church today, in its insistence that culture is doctrine. Examples, the priesthood ban on men of African lineage, the priesthood ban against women, the insistence that if you don't dress like you live in the 1930s or wear only one pair of earrings that you are somehow less righteous than those who do. True persecution of homosexuals, overbearing missionary practices, insisting that they are the religious authority, and they have the right to judge the rest of the world.

Gaz, you are missing the forest for the trees. I'd have hated to have you as bishop. My self-esteem was low enough as an LDS. I couldn't stop hating myself for what done and renounced long ago, I couldn't stop hating myself for being black, I couldn't stop hating myself for somehow "choosing" to be born into the dysfunction that is my family. Sounds like you wouldn't have encouraged me to stop, according to the theology you espouse.

The Christ I know is a Christ of mercy, one who understands the suffering, who can relate to those who are afraid of the dark and not understanding why the lights went off. The Christ I know is the one who held out his hand to fallen women, who touched lepers. The Christ you speak of wears a suit, has short, graying hair, possibly wears glasses, and speaks in monotone about the glories of church hierarchy.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_Sam Harris
_Emeritus
Posts: 2261
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:35 am

Post by _Sam Harris »

Test the doctrines it espouses against those preached by the others. They stand.


In that case I'm a negro slut. Black because I'm the "daughter" of the first murderer in existence, and bound to be single for the rest of my life because of that and the fact that I gave away my virginity to some fool boy at age 16.

Your god is great, Gaz.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_Gazelam
_Emeritus
Posts: 5659
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Post by _Gazelam »

I couldn't stop hating myself for being black, I couldn't stop hating myself for somehow "choosing" to be born into the dysfunction that is my family. Sounds like you wouldn't have encouraged me to stop, according to the theology you espouse.


GIMR I wont pretend to understand how we were divided up in the pre-existence into families. Was it merely a case of who we loitered about with? LIke going to get tickets at a concert and standing in line with your friends? I haven't a clue.

What I do know is that the Blood of Cain was carried through the flood to stand as a witness of the events that transpired between Cains family and the wiles of Satan.

The same stand taken against the Negro race for so long was no different than the stand taken against the Gentiles by Christ himself at the time of his ministry. He only taught the blood of the Jews. It wasn't until after his death that Gentiles were taught, their release happening by way of revelation. Sound familiar?

There is no need for you to have any ill feeling towards yourself. Should I feel bad about myself for not standing in the line with Abraham? You and I are both children of our Father in heaven, and are both passing through our mortal probation, seeking to follow the example of our Jesus Christ in being obedient to the commandments of the Father.

My people were not offered the opportunity to carry the priesthood until roughly 35 AD, You rbloodline was not asked to bear the weight of the priesthood until June 1st 1978. Times and Seasons.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Jersey Girl
_Emeritus
Posts: 34407
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Gaz
After the second coming, will Hindus remain? Will Muslims remain? Will carved tribal Gods remain? Which of the Christian beliefs will remain? Catholic? Protestant? Jehovahs Witness?


The Protestants. Next question?

Jersey Girl
:-)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Gazelam
_Emeritus
Posts: 5659
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Post by _Gazelam »

GIMR wrote:
Test the doctrines it espouses against those preached by the others. They stand.


In that case I'm a negro slut. Black because I'm the "daughter" of the first murderer in existence, and bound to be single for the rest of my life because of that and the fact that I gave away my virginity to some fool boy at age 16.

Your god is great, Gaz.


The Blood of Christ covers all sins. If the Lord has forgiven you, then you merely need to forgive yourself.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Gazelam
_Emeritus
Posts: 5659
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Post by _Gazelam »

Jersey Girl wrote:Gaz
After the second coming, will Hindus remain? Will Muslims remain? Will carved tribal Gods remain? Which of the Christian beliefs will remain? Catholic? Protestant? Jehovahs Witness?


The Protestants. Next question?

Jersey Girl
:-)



I think at last count there were nearly 3,000 different Protestant denominations. Could you please be more specific? : )

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Jersey Girl
_Emeritus
Posts: 34407
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Gazelam wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:Gaz
After the second coming, will Hindus remain? Will Muslims remain? Will carved tribal Gods remain? Which of the Christian beliefs will remain? Catholic? Protestant? Jehovahs Witness?


The Protestants. Next question?

Jersey Girl
:-)



I think at last count there were nearly 3,000 different Protestant denominations. Could you please be more specific? : )

Gaz


Yes, the Protestants. All of them.

Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_truth dancer
_Emeritus
Posts: 4792
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm

Post by _truth dancer »

What I do know is that the Blood of Cain was carried through the flood to stand as a witness of the events that transpired between Cains family and the wiles of Satan.


I don't even know how to respond to this.

I think in all my years of interacting in the online LDS community this has got to be one of the most disgusting statement I have come across.

I understand this "doctrine" was taught, believed, considered true for many years in the LDS church. As sick and perverted as it was.

But most members today seem to have realized it was all garbage! Most members are at least uncomfortable with the very idea this was once doctrine.

I don't even think the brethren today would say such a thing and to be honest I think they would admit (behind closed doors) it is as nonsensical as it is cruel.

Gaz... with all due respect, I think you are holding onto some very cruel and unhealthy ideas from which the church is largely trying to distance itself.

I think you do yourself and the church a disservice by harboring such cruel beliefs ...

~dancer~

To my friend GIMR... I'm sorry there are still those who hold such cruel ideas.. It is heartbreaking to hear such %$#@ in this century by educated and "God-fearing" folks. :-(
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_JAK
_Emeritus
Posts: 1593
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:04 pm

Post by _JAK »

The Nehor wrote:
truth dancer wrote:Hi Gaz...

Could you please cite examples of confusing doctrine.

Thanks

Gaz


I don't even know what is doctrine... seems everything is opinion.

I truly can't think of any "doctrine" that cannot be changed, altered, removed, added to, replaced, eliminated, etc. etc. etc.

Which is why I find the church so confusing!

I understand the idea of change and continuing revelation but to me this basically means... "we go along following the current leaders and whatever they say, whatever is their opinion, is what we go with for a time".

~dancer~


Solid Doctrine:

1. God exists.
2. Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Savior of the World.
3. Joseph Smith received the Keys of Presidency of the Holy Priesthood and those keys have been passed down in an unbroken chain to President Hinckley.
4. The canon of scripture (which is not infallible) consists of the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.
5. There was a Premortal Existence and there will be and is a Postmortal Existence.
6. The ordinances of salvation are administered by the Priesthood.
7. Drinking Dr. Pepper is the equivalent of injecting heroin directly into your eyes.

This is not a complete list, but a good starting point.


Your list confirms reason for disagreement of major proportions.

JAK
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Gaz wrote:What I do know is that the Blood of Cain was carried through the flood to stand as a witness of the events that transpired between Cains family and the wiles of Satan.


References???
Post Reply